"Brit tanks, WWII, pennon and Sqd. markings - HELP PLEASE" Topic

OK, I'm confused. My main interreset is Western Desert late 1941.

Before I start with the questions, this is what I know:

Pennons:
Colour by seniority: Red, yellow, blue, green, white.
Seniority by 'Cavalry', then RTR, by order of when originally constituted (which could go back to the 1700s).

Squadron markings by seniority: Triangle, Square (rectangle), Circle.
I know that a triangle was 'A' squadron, etc. I know that colour of marking was by seniority.

But I'm confused by my only source as to how this works otherwise with the line "…determined by seniority of a squadron within a regiment or regiment within a brigade…."

Questions:

1. Did all of the tanks of the most senior regiment in a brigade have red pennons, etc? I'm presuming so, but further recognition was determined by how far up the antenna they were flown, so did this determine regiment or squadron?

2. Were all of the squadron markings (triangles, etc,) of the most senior regiment of a brigade red? In my pics, most seem to be red triangles, yellow squares, and blue circles – but there are a few red circles and yellow triangles.

any help here would be gratefully received. I spent an hour on google last night to no purpose.
_________________
James
olicanalad.blogspot.com

Your source is talking out of its backside. Seniority is by regiment and not squadron. Therefore your point 2 is absolutely correct – the senior regiment has all red squadron signs, the 2nd regiment has all yellow, the third has all blue and the fourth has all greeen. Unbrigaded regiments have white.

With the RTR things were more complicated than that during the early war, as each RTR regiment had its own colour for squadron signs. Unfortunately the only one I know offhand was 9 RTR, which had Brunswick Green as its colour. However, this practice may have ended by 1941.

Sorry, I don't know anything about pennants.

Thanks, R Mark.

The source was "British Tanks in North Africa 1940 – 42" which is an Osprey Vanguard – so the 'backside' comment is no surprise to me.

Squadron tac signs are by seniority just not by Seniority in that A is before B etc. Poor choice of words in that Osprey by the sounds of it (or maybe i'm too charitable)

The following is from Malcolm Bellis' "Datafile: British Tanks and Formations 1939-1945":

Turret markings:
Regt HQ -- Diamond in red/yellow/blue (according to regimental seniority, as described above)
"A" Squadron -- Triangle in red/yellow/blue
"B" Squadron -- Square in red/yellow/blue
"C" Squadron -- Circle in red/yellow/blue

Pennants:

Regimental commander -- square in regimental colours

'A' Squadron commander -- swallow in red
'B' Squadron commander -- swallow in yellow
'C' Squadron commander -- swallow in blue

1 Troop commander -- triangle in black and red
2 Troop commander -- triangle in black and yellow
3 Troop commander -- triangle in black and blue

1 Troop tank -- triangle in red
2 Troop tank -- triangle in yellow
3 Troop tank -- triangle in blue

…so you can see that the red > yellow > blue colour sequence of seniority worked for regiments, squadrons and troops, but on different things.

So, what would be the affiliation of a tank wearing a blue square on its turret and flying a black and yellow triangular pennant? I make it the troop commander of no. 2 troop in "B" squadron of the junior regiment of the brigade, and if you do too then you've probably understood it.

All the best,

John.

Thanks John

I have a pictorial version of markings here link

The serials are right for NWE they varied rather more earlier in the war

Re turret markings: sometimes the troop number was painted within the triangle/square/circle, in the same color. Not sure when they began to do that, though.

Thus a blue 3 inside a blue square would mean 3rd troop, B squadron, junior regiment/battalion.

"sometimes the troop number"

Only in some regiments.

Purely at the whim of the CO.

Thus the "sometimes." ;)