"Portuguese Infantry in 1812" Topic

I am planning a Portuguese brigade for my British Peninsular division. I want to be sure of the battalion organisations before I finish collecting the figures. I have the Osprey books but having been caught out before I want to be confirm the information.
Therefore, can anyone tell me how line battalion and a cazadores battalion were made up in 1812? (I assume that a line battalion had two colours and the cazadores none.

Each line regiments conatins two battalions (except the 21st regiment)
Im not sure of the company orginisation but I think they had 5 line companies and two flank companies.
Cacadores were single battalion regiments I believe. As I understand it they have no colours the cacadores battalions.

My references reflect 2 battalions per line regiment, each of 5 companies in 1812. 4 line, 1 Grenadier. By 1812 all light companies were amalgamated into the Cazadores. Cazadores are 1 battalion of 4 companies. One company armed with Rifles. It was around 1810 (not 100% certain of the date) the battalions were rorganized from 7 companies (with an attached light compamy) to the 5 company structure.

It seems at times line regiments may have been reduced at times to 1 battalion due to attrition. The 21st, Brigaded with the 9th in Campbell's Brigade, show 1 battalion in my references. In that case, I can only assume they carried both colors.

The Cazadores had colors, but whether they carried them into the field I'm uncertain. But what the hell… in my Peninsula army, they carry the colors. There's plenty of references for flags.

correction… Cazadores 5 companies; 1 of which were rifles. The 4 companies stated above is a typo.

If you don't concentrate, everything changes. BC becomes BCE and now Cacadores (with a "c" cedilla) has become Cazadores.

When did this happen and why wasn't I told?

More relevantly, can someone suggest an on-line resource for Portuguese uniforms of this period?

Doug

---When did this happen and why wasn't I told?---

Portuguese and Spanish are not the same language.

'Hunter' was caçadore in Portuguese and cazadore in Spanish. It still is. Here's the entry on Portuguese Wiki, they might be expected to know

link

note: "cazadores em Espanha" – "cazadores in Spanish"

It's cacciatore in Italian, if you're bothered. Though they call their elite light troops bersaglieri :)

---More relevantly, can someone suggest an on-line resource for Portuguese uniforms of this period?---

A description of the uniform in 1911

link

given the problems with supply in the peninsula, it's likely that the uniforms remained the same to the end of the war.

Thanks for the link – how about for the line battalions..?

Portuguese and Spanish are not the same language

Er yeah – I knew that

So, we're still OK with Cacadores – good show. Incidentally, how did you get that "c" cedilla in your post?

Doug

The diff between Cacadores (with the little symbol on the C) and Cazadores (The Z is pronounced as a TH, as it is the Noble Language of Castille)is pretty important.

Cacadores : picture

Cazadores: picture

picture

Grenadier in 1b

Facing colours in 1806, I don't know if they'd changed by 1812

link

The cedilla? Hold down <alt> and type 0231 on your numeric keypad – ç, 0199 capitalises it – Ç

HTH :)

@ tobermoray Great – thanks. And for the ç as well….!

Doug

I too am trying to find a definitive answer for the 1812 period. Osprey states line regiments had single battalions in ten companies (two flanks) from 1808 onwards, but the majority seem to think regiments had two battalions.

All agree on Cacadores having single battalions though.

The regimental strengths stated in Osprey look too high to have single battalions for the line regiements so very confusing.

Salamanca OBs I've seen have most Portuguese line regiments with two battalions.

I agree on the two battalions per line regiment as all the orbats I have seen have two battalions. Does that mean two colours per battalion or one each?

2 flags per regt, Regt color (see relevant Osprey with first battalion and department color with the second.

Many thanks for all this info.

My take on the information I have is that there was 1 battalion with 10 companies per regiment. But they broke it down to two bataalions with 5 companies each.

Ordens do dia de Beresford
Quartel General de Formos d'Algodres 28 de Maio de 1810

E permitte que os regimentos que se achao disciplinados ou qualquer parte, que seja dellas, se costume a manobrar em duas fileiras, e particularmente aquelles, que se achao em camphanha, e determina que se formem deste modo sempre que estiverem perto do inimigo, ou houverem de se lhe oppor. Como as Companhias dos regimentos estao aqui completas, com esta formatura vem a ter demasiada extensao para poderem mover-se com facilidade, e justeza; os senhores Commandantes poderao, quando o julgarem necessario , formar as duas alas, ou Batalhoes com 10 peletoes cada hum, e neste caso dividirao os officios em relecao a esta formatura.
Declerara mais o senhor Marechal, que a sobredita permissao nao he mais que hum desvio temporario das Ordenancas relitavemente a formatura em tres filleiras , a qual os regimentos em guarnicao , e na disciplina ordinaria devem sempre observer; em razao do que a formatura em duas filleiras quasi so deve ter uso nos corpos empregados contra o inimigo em camphanha.

I think this is something along the lines of the two Battalions of a regiment forming in 10 peletons each in two ranks when at full strength and fit for service.

I'm sure Beresford knew exactly what he was saying!
Apologies for the missed cedillas. :>

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The parts in the Portuguese line infantry regs, that is otherwise a straight translation of Dundas, is the page on Organisation where a regiment is two battalions each of 4 line companies plus a grenadier company; and the page where the duties of the grenadiers as light troops is described.