""Age of Sail" rules?" Topic
16 Posts
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| thomfllame2 | 02 Apr 2004 8:22 a.m. PST |
I tried this before but just went back to check the post and it seems unnaccessable. so here goes again:
I want to paint up some 1/2400 ships for the age of sail but do not know what rules are out there. I want rules that are useable from sometime between about 1550 and 1850. They do not have to cover the whole period, but if they do that would be a good thing.
I wuold like it if they covered the differences in armament and other minor details so that they somehow show how an 18 pounder is different than a 32 pounder and so that a culivern does not act like a cannon. I want rules that are detailed enough that two ships fighting can be interesting. They should also cover differences in handling, speed, and so on of different ships.
I do not need rules for 'fantasy' elements so rules for submarines are not neccessary. |
 Saber6   | 02 Apr 2004 8:59 a.m. PST |
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John Leahy  | 02 Apr 2004 10:53 a.m. PST |
Try Fire as She Bears 2 or Form Line of Battle. Both will do what you want. Both can handle a few ships or lots of ships well. I doubt that HOA will feel right with 1/2400 scale ships. It would be a better fit with larger scale ships. Thanks, John |
| Ed Mohrmann | 02 Apr 2004 12:07 p.m. PST |
John Leahy's correct. Although HoA is a great set,
which places a premium on maneauver, the rules mostly
work best with 1/1200. Using the standard maneauver scale with 1/2000 (Valiant)
or 1/2400 gives a 'too quick' feel to the movement,
especially for the SoL's. thomflame2, I'm not sure how you want differences in
armaments (i.e., 18's vs. 32's; carronades vs. swivels;
culvereins vs. sakers, etc.) portrayed, but I believe
that at the level of HoA or Fire as She Bears 2 or
FLOB, those differences are going to be abstracted, for
the most part, and reflected primarily as differences
due to the size of the ship which might have carried
that weight of armament. Example: HoA merely divides the total weight of a
broadside by (IIRC) 50, assigns 'that many' gun squares
to a ship, and allows a percentage of 'that many' guns
firing each turn (based upon crew quality). Thus, a
ship armed with 42's would fire more than a ship armed
with the same number of 18'2, 24's, or even 32's. Note that range doesn't come into play, except with
carronades which (again, IIRC) are only effective at
or below 200 yards. To HoA, a long 9 has the same range
as a long 18. |
| RockyRusso | 03 Apr 2004 8:13 a.m. PST |
Hi I really like Heart of Oak. however.... I changed the scales all around. In my opinion, the rules suit Ships of the Line in battle better than smaller. So, I made the following changes:
Changed the "waterscale" The game scale is 1:1000 and I changed it to fit my minis; 1/1200. changed the hitscale (based on rate) to tonnage and structure, changed the guns to a basis of 3# per "hit" rather than 50. Then plugged in every ship I could get data on.
About the time I did this, the Naval institute press issued some new stuff on Galleys and Galleons. So, I did sailing charts for them based on Heart of Oak(the game is based on real sailing).
My personal interests are not on fleet actions, but on single ships and cutting out actions on a convoy.
Went to this effort because I liked the basic rules(the others either have major technical problems or sailing wierdness). AND, i cannot seem to keep my hands off a set of rules I like. Even my own. R |
| Mako13 | 04 Apr 2004 6:18 p.m. PST |
Search for Beat to Quarters Napoleonic naval rules on the net. They don't get into individual cannon values, but are decent for simulating combat between fairly good-sized formations in a quick manner. They are FREE, and are highly recommended. I recently ran a game where the Royal Navy was blockading a French port on the English Channel, and the results were fairly historical, even though the Inshore Squadron was equipped mainly with frigates. The double-rate firing of the Royal Navy (special rule) ships was used to good effect versus the French 3rd rates. One French vessel was entirely dismasted by the Brits, before it could break out of the bay, and the French commander wasn't able to use his "crack" crew to much effect - I permitted the French to have a one in six chance of such a rating, while most of the other crews were average, or poor. Many of the British crews were either average, or crack, since they had spent much time drilling, while on station off of the French coastline. It turned out to be a quite entertaining afternoon. Rob |
| Mako13 | 04 Apr 2004 6:19 p.m. PST |
By the way, forgot to mention that we used the 1/2000 sailing ships by Valiant. They are reasonably priced, and highly recommended. |
| John Leahy | 04 Apr 2004 8:09 p.m. PST |
I agree with Mako. The Valiant ships are great value (excluding the gunports needing sanded on the 72 gun ship to line up-not a big deal). Thanks, John |
| fenyan | 04 Apr 2004 10:18 p.m. PST |
Can anyone make a comparison between 1/2000 Valiant and 1/2400 Figurehead? I own some of the Figurehead minis, they fit on the gaming table nicely at 1.25 inches long, but I would like to know how the Valiant ships look. They are a bit bigger so I'd assume a bit more detail and differences between rates? thanks,
...Fen |
| freewargamesrules | 21 Apr 2004 2:40 a.m. PST |
An excellent set of rules are Kiss Me Hardy! by Two Fat Lardies (www.geocities.com/toofatlardies/). They really play the flavour of the period |
| Olonnois | 21 Apr 2004 4:41 a.m. PST |
@RockyRusso:
Is there any way you could let me have a look at your modifications for HoO? I intend to use the rules with ships from the Anglo-Dutch wars, and I'd be very interested indeed in how you modified charts and values for other periods.
Feel free to drop me an e-mail: claes.horsmann'at'wisofak.uni-rostock.de |
| RockyRusso | 21 Apr 2004 8:00 a.m. PST |
Hi OK, I hope I translated the above address correctly. I did the pages on an obsolete system that does not talk to anything I have now. I could photo copy with time. I have been meaning to scan and move to the PC, but I am not really happy yet with any of the PC page layout stuff. Let me know what I can do! Rocky |
| Olonnois | 22 Apr 2004 3:03 a.m. PST |
Hi Rocky,
umm, I Haven't got an e-mail from you yet. The 'at' was meant to represent an @, don't know if you got that right. I'm a bit wary of spam mail, you know. :o)
As for the material: whaetver is most convenient for you. JPEG Scans would be OK, and I don't mind if the layout is a bit rough. After all, I can always write back to you if I've got any questions.
Cheers,
Claes |
| RockyRusso | 22 Apr 2004 7:03 a.m. PST |
Hi I figured out the @ part, but the mail bounced. I dont have a scanner. I suppose I could ask around and do that. We use a mod of these rules in our ancients naval (and renaissance naval) as well. I suppose I could scan and post on our "Art of War" site. any interest in that? Rocky |
| Olonnois | 22 Apr 2004 11:16 p.m. PST |
Hi
definitely. Just be sure to post the URL here.
The mail bounced? Now, that's dodgy. It is certainly spelled correctly. Maybe the server's gone barmy...
Cheers,
Claes |
| Spence | 25 Jun 2004 11:32 p.m. PST |
thomfllame2, I know exactly what you mean by wanting the rules to take into account the actual guns/carronades. I found a rule set back in the 80's. Back in '75 TSR used to do a fair job producing historical wargame rules. The name of their rules for Age of Sail is "Don't Give Up The Ship" by "TSR Rules". It is a 5.5" by 8.5" staple bound booklet that was the format of choice back then. The rules are written for 1:1200 but I found the game "felt/flowed" better by doubling the scale. For 1:2400 I think it would do nicely using unmodified charts.
My original copy "walked away" one con and had to make do with a pretty ratty "backup copy" for a while. I just located another copy last year through an online out of print game dealer in near mint condition (I paid 3 times cover price, a whopping $15). I am still unpacking from my last move, but I will see if I can find my backup copy if you are interested. |
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