"Best country to visit for Military History" Topic

What do people think is the best country to visit in order to be able to visit a lot of military history sites covering a wide period of history, with the backup of good quality museums and so on (but, just for a chnge, not wargaming shops !).

England has a high density of battlefield sites, castles, military museums and so on covering iron age up to modern day.

Wales has a goodly lot of pre-industrial age sites, but they tend to be along The Marches or along the coast (all those mountains get in the way of building castles and having battles. Scotland is a bit similar – lots of stuff but quite spread out so hard to see a lot in a day.

Struggled to find much in some European countries like Sweden and Germany. I realise that's probably due to familiarity as much as anything.

Haven't tried a military history tour in the states – things seem to be long way apart ;-).

So – the rambling approach gets to this poll question :

Which three countries would you recommend visiting in order to see in a single vacation a lot of military history sites covering a wide period of history, with the backup of good quality military museums ?

(Take into account ease of travel between sites etc – not much point saying "you must see Pearl harbour and Gettysburg – 'cos it ain't going to happen on the same trip !)

Disagree completely re England. No major land battles since the 1600s (1745 in Scotland).

There's a much bigger range of things to see in France. I'm just back from Normandy where there's everything from from prehistoric sites to WWII fortifications.

Italy – from Hannibal to Hitler nearly everyone has fought there!
Also the food is good and there is Rome for the wife to shop or even take her to Venice.
Paul

Belgium, the cockpit of Europe

From ancient times to the last two world wars. Napoleonic, Louis XIV, 30-years war, 80-years war, medieval etc …

USA – Particularly Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey. Have many well preserved ACW and AWI battlefield sites with nice attached museums, And then there is the Smithsonian in DC with the air museum, plus many more interesting displays.

Here in Germany it is a mixed bag. Some areas are fine, others are completely taken up by development. But there is tons oof nice medival castles, even if no battle took place there.

Belgium is much the same IMHO, but the amout of sites that have been taken up by development are less. Might just be me, but it seems that most places in Belgium where big battles took place are too far from major places to see much development.

The Netherlands suck. I did Market Garden toor with a friend a couple years back and it was very hard to get bearing even with a good tourbook. It seems the Dutch want to forget they wer liberated.

France is great. A lot is kept they way it was and there is lots of memorials and plaques so you can get your bearings.

The US is great too. Since almost all battle sites are either National Parks or National Historical Parks / Monuments they steay they way they are (OK I know the shopping mall are creaping closer to some parks, but right now they are still top).

Cheers,

Burkhard

The Netherlands suck. I did Market Garden toor with a friend a couple years back and it was very hard to get bearing even with a good tourbook. It seems the Dutch want to forget they wer liberated.

Not at all true at Arnhem & Oosterbeek.

Disagree completely re England. No major land battles since the 1600s

Yes – but it was "military history in the round" that I asked about. There are plenty of pre-1600 things, plus there are later military sites like fortifications at Berwick, Victorian forts like Fort Nelson, and really quite a lot of WWI and WWII pill boxes and other defences. Terry Wise use to publish a book of military sites in England and it was quite thick. But that's the advantage of local knowledge I suppose, hence the question.

( as an aside – the '45 did see an incursion into England – didn't they get to Derby ad stop rather than pushing on to London ? )

( as an aside – the '45 did see an incursion into England – didn't they get to Derby ad stop rather than pushing on to London ? )

Skirmishes, but no real battles.

Just a thought – should /could we treat large states as seperate countries ? For example – went to Canada and found quite a lot in Quebec region, but there's less (I guess) in the Yukon.

So, maybe Texas has quite a lot, but Alaska a bit less ?
So that a blanket "USA" doesn't really work for a 2-3 week vacation.

What about Poland? You can visit everything from dark age settlements to the Wolfe's Lair, including Grunwald and the various Skansens. The battles are too numerous to count!

Jan

As far as "best" I'd go with Belgium too. Lots of fighting there.

Of course my first choice would be Greece.

Some parts of the US are actually pretty good – they have done a good job of preserving many of their Civil War battlefields.

Texas!

I'm not sure this is a good poll suggestion. Actually, I think TMP polls are pretty much useless anyway; we aren't electing anyone to anything, and I don't care if you like one scale of tiny battleship/set of ECW rules/German general over another.

It is, however, an interesting topic.

Quebec's great. North Georgia/Chattanooga has lots of things within a short distance. England is great for castles, but all the battlefields are under something else now. Wales is great for castles, and the battlefields aren't under anything, but nobody knows where they might have been :)

One year I drove past the Lundy's Lane Museum in tacky, tacky Niagara Falls and planned on coming back when I wasn't driving a U Haul. When I did come back it had been knocked down to make way for a strip mall.

For a 3 destinations in a single holiday why not England, the Channel Islands and France.

Southern England has plenty of military history, London for the museums, then down to Dover Castle, head west for 1066 Country, Portsmouth Naval Dockyard, Southsea Castle (Tudor), Portchester Castle (Late Roman), a side trip to Stonehenge if you want, Corfe Castle, and the Bovington Tank Museum.

Then a Ferry to Jersey from Weymouth or Poole which has a couple of superb Medieval Castles and some very well preserved WWII German Bunkers.

Another Ferry takes you to Normandy, for the D-Day beaches, The Bayeux Tapestry, more castles, and a plenty more no doubt.

In case you hadn't guessed I just love planning trips I haven't got the money to take.

You sure, Howard?

link

Allen

I always liked Germany. Where I lived there were nearby Roman ruins, burial mounds in the local woods, a nearby quarry used to make the stone for city walls had carvings from a French officer that came thru in 1809. One of the small local towns had a robber baron who escaped from Nuremburg castle by jumping over the castle walls on his horse (he had been allowed to sit on it as a last request and there are hoof prints on the wall top of the castle to commemorate the event, he survived only to be later captuted again)
I remember while on maneuvers coming across a grave for a WWII pilot in the middle of a wooded area and near my post there was a small skirmish fought one night back in late WWII.
I always liked the Deutsch Museum in Munich, then there is the Medieval Jail Museum at Rothenburg (a thirthy years war site) and you can always visit Cold War favorites like Fulda and/or Hof to search out where the IGB (Inner German Border) use to be.

Italy

Israel, Jordan, and Egypt.
From ancient Egypt to modern.
The first military campaign recorded Egypt invading Canaan.
Through Biblical time periods, Assyria, Babylonia.
Persian, Alexander the Great, Selucides, against Egypt.
Romans taking the region, and two Jewish Revolts. Herod the Great built many fortifications. Masada, Herodian. Caves at Beit Guvrin where the Jews used caves to ambush Romans.
Fall of Roman empire, Rise of the Arabs, and Persia invaded just before the Arabs.
Crusades. Acco, Ashkelon, Montfort, Belvile, Nimrod castles. Horns of Hattin, Jerusalem. Many other sites.
Napolean visited getting up to Acco.
World war One. Beersheba, Megiddo. Many comenwealth cemetaries. In Jerusalem there are WWI German graves.
No WWII, However the fighting in 1948 was with WWII equipment. Plenty of sites to see. Kibbutz Dagania, Yad Mordechi, Jerusalem, Etzion, Negev, Galilee, Latrun, Lod, Burma Road to Jerusalem, the high way to Jerusalem where a convoy was attacked.
Modern.
1956 in Egypt.
1967 In West Bank, Golan, Sinai.
1973, Golan heights has many tanks, and a great look out over the valley of tears, and Kuneitra.
Siani has many sights, and several tanks. Suez city, and there are also some Israeli fortifications.
Modern there is some things
Museums there are not a lot of them for before 1948. Many ancient sites can be visited, and in the archaeological museums one can see some military artifacts.
After 1948 there are museums in Haifa for the Israeli navy, In Suez in Egypt dealing with 1973. Near Beer Sheva there is the Israeli ariforce museum. Latrun is a great museum to see many types of tanks, not all tanks that fought in the middle east also. The military museum in Tel Aviv, and there is a museum near Jaffa that is worth seeing, many small arms.

God Bless You

"USA – Particularly Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey"
Whoever said you Merrikins have no sense of humour?…
Anyway;
Got to be France (and to be cheeky, I'd include Belgium)- WWII and the Great War sites obviously, the 1814 and 1870 battlefields, Musee D'armee, The site of Alesia (which I lived 5KM from for 5 years- from the air you can still see the Roman fortification lines) the list really is endless..On top of that, virtually every city has some sort of museum with something of interest, plus literally every few miles there will be some ruined medieval castle or well-preserved chateau tucked away. Half the problem is that a lot of stuff isn't well publicised. I recall one time going to look round a a very small "family" chateau in the Loire valley- They made no big deal about advertising it- I went entirely on spec, just for something to do on a rainy afternoon. Not expecting much at all-As it happened it still had all its medieval fortifications in perfect order. Fabulous! On top of that it turned out to be the ancestral home of Colbert, who led the Dutch Lancers at Waterloo and they had loads of his personal effects including uniforms plus paintings etc. The owners were staggered that a foriegn visitor had even heard of him. This type of place is pretty typical. There is something of interest under every stone if you can find it.

TMP polls are pretty much useless

They are something talk about. Admittedly often twice, but hey. What's a forum for except talking?

Actually, because Market-Garden failed, most of Berlin was liberated before most of the Dutch.

WRT the original question, I vote for Italy as well--something to see from every era.

"Got to be France (and to be cheeky, I'd include Belgium)- WWII and the Great War sites obviously, the 1814 and 1870 battlefields, Musee D'armee, The site of Alesia (which I lived 5KM from for 5 years- from the air you can still see the Roman fortification lines) the list really is endless..On top of that, virtually every city has some sort of museum with something of interest, plus literally every few miles there will be some ruined medieval castle or well-preserved chateau tucked away. Half the problem is that a lot of stuff isn't well publicised. I recall one time going to look round a a very small "family" chateau in the Loire valley- They made no big deal about advertising it- I went entirely on spec, just for something to do on a rainy afternoon. Not expecting much at all-As it happened it still had all its medieval fortifications in perfect order. Fabulous! On top of that it turned out to be the ancestral home of Colbert, who led the Dutch Lancers at Waterloo and they had loads of his personal effects including uniforms plus paintings etc. The owners were staggered that a foriegn visitor had even heard of him. This type of place is pretty typical. There is something of interest under every stone if you can find it."

I agree with this. I thought the location of Alesia was very much disputed so I'm surprised to hear you can still see where fortifications were?

I've been in the valley where Aquae Sextiae supposedly happened though I don't think anyone really knows where the battle took place. It's certainly easy to imagine it happening in a number of places there all of which fit the description pretty well. Agincourt, the Somme, Normandy. Plus the food and wine aren't too bad when you're done for the day.

I would suggest Malta.

Great fortifications.
Knights Templar.
World War 2 stuff.
100 ton gun.
Warships visit the harbour.

Small island with great public transport.
English is widely spoken.

Anyone done Moscow, Borodino and Kubinka? I've always fancied that one of these days

If you like the Indian Wars, there's a corner of Montana/Wyoming/South Dakota that has tons of battlefields, you could see Little Big Horn, Fetterman, Fort Phil Kearny and others in a day if you wanted (and I did).

Cheers

w.

I have very fond memories of malta and it's many fortifications – and the WWII museum is superb. The bombing records really brought home what a bashing the island took

France and the USA as the French tend to leave things alone (WWII sites and Napoleonic sites for instance) and Americans try really hard if they care (see Antietam for instance)

England is a close third for castles and artifacts however.

"I thought the location of Alesia was very much disputed so I'm surprised to hear you can still see where fortifications were?"

It is disputed (by some REALLY bickery French Historians) but the official line is that it's near Alise-Sainte-Reine. Judging by the quantity of Roman artifacts (particularly military) that my next door neighbour had found in his fields over the years and tucked away in a secret horde of his own, who am I to argue?.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. You can't see the fortifications (long gone), but you can see the lines of the ditches quite clearly from the air,by the contast in the soil colour. Extraordinary really.

I'd second Sargon about Israel- almost every period accounted for, and Israel must rank very high on battles per square km. Jordan would be an interesting addition, as would be Lebanon and Syria for Crusader and Roman sites.

I've got to throw my lot in for oddball countries. I hit up a lot in the US, but I've learned the most stumbling across military history in the Caribbean. I think it's the best because while it's nice to visit sites from AWI, ACW, etc., I wouldn't have even known about, say the invasion of Jamaica in 1655 had I not visited there. Lots of fun places in the Bahamas as well. I've also got places on my list to visit in Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, VI, etc. So, Caribbean overall (i know, it's a region, not a country) for the pleasant surprise factor. And it's really nice relaxing on the beach afterward.