"Why are some wargamers so cheap?" Topic

I received an email about a week ago from someone who was selling an army of figures. They said that since they weren't a Supporting Member, they couldn't sell on the TMP Marketplace, and asked if I would advertise their army for sale for them. (Presumably as a Hobby News item, but he didn't say.)

Now, I think I'm a reasonable guy, but this struck me as someone who was just being too cheap. So I wrote back, and gently reminded him that it would only cost him $2.50 USD to get a one month Supporting Membership, and then he could post his sale on the TMP Marketplace.

I suppose I offended him, because he wrote back to say that he'd changed his mind about mentioning the sale on TMP, as he figured that the TMP crowd would only say bad things about his figures anyway…

(Note: If the guy was down on his luck and couldn't afford a membership, it would be a different kettle of fish…)

Yes, we are cheap.
Why? That's a different story.

Speak for yourself John, I am refreshingly expensive…

C'mon Bill. Fess up. Let's further establish the stereotype. Were the miniatures historical or fantasy/sci-fi?

Relative , look and see how much we spend at cons. I spent lots and lots at Historicon. Not just mini's but food and beer etc etc . I work in the automotive field and everyone wants something for nothing when it comes to fixing the car . Maybe cause the stereotypical gamer have poor social skills we come across as cheap when looking for a bargin .

Well, we tend to a be a cheap lot when it comes to gaming, at least in our own imaginations. I think it's sort of inbred … part of our nature. Reality may be something entirely different. How often do we see gamers spend wads of cash at a convention for figures/buildings, etc. that only adds to their pile of unpainted lead?

The part about peole here saying bad things about his army may ring a bit true.

Sense of entitlement. If a guy can't plunk down $2.50 USD for a supporting membership, then why does he expect its benefits? As to the other part, it frankly sounds like sour grapes.

As a Marketing Expert, I can tell you that it's not just wargamers. Every customer base in every market has a group of people in it who are both incredibly demanding and incredibly cheap. In many cases, the relationship is actually a money-loser. (example: link )

The restaurant example would be the people who go to the all-you-can-eat buffet and then stay for lunch AND dinner on the same ticket, then try to sneak out with some food, too, but won't tip the waiter and loudly complain about anything they can think of, hoping for a coupon from the manager (obviously I'm exaggerating a bit here). Or people who buy CD's at the record store, go home, copy them and then return them for a refund.

A major electronics retailer ran into this. They had a no-questions-asked return policy with a 15% restocking fee. On items that had been returned but were fully functional, they would sell them at 50% off. People would buy expensive stuff like plasma TV's, open them, and then return them. Then a week or so later, they'd show up again and buy the same exact item on discount! Some marked the boxes subtly to ensure it was the same one.

The best solution is prevention: don't make offers you can't profitably fulfill. But even then people will be incredibly inventive in taking advantage of you.

JJ, that post was genius.

He does have a way with words.

I think we are seeing a change in customer behavior to the haggle over anything paradigm. My son the other evening ordered some pizza for him and his friends. Typical "be there in 40 minutes spiel". Well after an hour and no pizza he called and got the manager. The manager explained that they had had a series of mishaps with their drivers. If he liked, he could come down and pick it up and the manager would make it right. So he drove down and walked up to the counter and asked for the manager. While giving him his name a woman pushed past him complaining she had been waiting forever and wanted a discount. Thinking she was in the same boat, my son let her have her say. The manager looked at her and said "ma'am you placed your order 11 minutes ago at this counter. It takes twelves minutes just to cook the pizza". He then turned back to my son, gave him his pizza at half off and coupons for a free pizza next time.

My son said the woman turned several shades of red and purple.

Sometimes paying for ad space just is not worth it, even if it is $2.50, especially if its only one auction.

Ebay and Paypal can gut you for up to 20% of the final auction price. On the whole of the sale, that doesnt seem so bad, but when you think of how much of that was your actual profit (if any) you find yourself in the neg real easy.

"My son the other evening ordered some pizza for him and his friends."

I've seen behavior like that at chain restaurants and fast-food places, but I've never seen people throw fits like that at nice restaurants (not that it doesn't happen).

I will lend him the $2.50 USD and when he sells his army he can pay me back. Let him know. Another guy told me at the con he doesn't visit TMP because we aren't civil to each other. This is true… I offer to lend him the money because "There but for the grace of God go I."

At nice restaurants there is a MaitreD who can be ruder than any customer while still smiling…

Never take on a pro as an amateur.

Gamers are cheap as a group; I wrote a long post listing different reasons but snipped it. Some of us (me I hope) try to be aware of our tendency that way and consciously counter it -- for instance, I'm not a Supporting Member at this time, because I don't need to be for what I use TMP for, but if I did need the additional services, such as posting an ad, I'd buy the membership.

Now, it's just plain silly what the guy asked for. On the other hand, we can probably forgive him. A miniatures gamer selling off an army and trying to get good value for it? The guy is going through some life changes, guaranteed. He's lost his job or he's a clearing his gameroom for a new baby or he's greatly disillusioned with a game or genre he used to spend tons of social time on. Or all of the above.

It's still uncool that he took up so much of Bill's time, and ours, to save himself $2.50, but no doubt he didn't think about it in those terms.

Strange. the person is not only cheap but has no friends who could place the ad for him.

If you have to ask me my price, you can't afford me. So, I must be fairly expensive! It sounds like a whiner to me Bill. I recall when I was merely a non-supporting member and figured there was no need, I didn't need to become a supporting member. When I got one as a gift, it opened up a few things on the site and I've not gone back. Yes, TMP has it's ups and downs, some personalities come and go – usually in a huff – but overall I enjoy TMP for what it is as a forum. Mildly moderated (I enjoy the no profanity portions most because my kids sometimes read over my shoulder), has lots of informing posts, and a host of characters. So, my thoughts are this is an individual who thought he could finagle a free membership out of you so he could get free advertising – and when politely informed it wouldn't work – whinged and complained about his perception of the figures he was going to sell. Posh, I've not seen many posts complaining about someones work on the for sale forums – usually if you don't like the paint job you are getting them for stripping purposes to repaint them to your liking. No complaint needed.

My spending on gaming is with what amounts to my most disposable and discretionary of income which I spend on a completely self-indulgent hobby. As such, I'm anything but cheap/frugal/miserly whatever.

I'll admit it, I'm cheap. But I'm illogically cheap. I won't pay $5 USD for a painted 28mm figure, but I'd want at least $5 USD to paint one for somebody else! I won't pay $50 USD for a single set of rules, but I'll pay $50 USD for a terrain piece (or kit) even though writing & publishing a set of rules requires way more effort than scratch-building a "$50" terrain piece. I hate paying extra for shipping on items ordered online even though the alternative is spending just as much (or more!) in gas $$ and sales tax (not to mention my time). Why?? Don't know. That's just how it is.

I'm cheap, but I'm not easy. :) Okay, I am easy.

I'm cheap and so is my wife.

Somebody who does not spends 2.50 to make 50.00-500.00 is just too stupid, never mind miserly.

I don't find gamers as a whole any more cheap than any other group. Still varies according to personality, and etc. Some think nothing of letting gobs of cash go, some are frugal, some are on a budget, etc. Does seem pretty bad to pass up a $2.50 USD monthly fee, but obviously we don't all do that!

I can be cheap, but not to Bill. I appreciate this site too much for that. I am buying a lot of my 40K stuff secondhand, because I am short of cash right now and I am just getting back into the game. If I could afford new, I would buy new lol! But I find some people are really generous: Moonbeast gifted me a fully painted Eldar army to get me up and playing while I acquire and sort out my own army. He's pretty much the opposite of cheap in my book. I am sure he isn't unique, I am sure there are more good guys than bad guys out there. They just maintain a lower profle.

I'm cheap. For the right person I'm free.

JJ's post was quite brilliant, I'll agree.

Look, when you have posts in wargames forums wondering if there can be a use for dryer lint, thhen you are dealing with some very cheap people.
--
Tim

"Nuthin personal it's just Miniatures."

My other "hobby" is golf. I've never met anyone in that hobby who said "I think drivers are overpriced," so I tied a tin can to a stick and if you squint just right it sort of looks like a driver.

But I've had way too many conversations with miniature gamers who said just that sort of thing. In some cases, it's just cute. The time is obviously worth less to them than the money. So I don't care if you spend 20 hours making something when you could have spent $40 USD and purchased it. But in too many cases, I've seen it extend to making copies of rules books and miniatures.

"I've seen behavior like that at chain restaurants and fast-food places, but I've never seen people throw fits like that at nice restaurants (not that it doesn't happen)."

I have seen it. American at a UK restaurant who wanted his orange juice squeezed in front of him – he was asked to leave.

American at a UK restaurant who wanted his orange juice squeezed in front of him

If he'd have asked for that many of the places I know, he's have been squeezed!

Cheap people who have a sense of entitlement to discounts and who can't seem to understand/empathise/appreciate the very valid reasons you can't do a discount are one of the main reasons I stopped trading.

Wargaming is not a cheap hobby!

I am old enough to remember people on Early internet sites offering single Essex 15mm Figures for sale.

Nothing therefore shocks me any more.

Pat

"Wargaming is not a cheap hobby!"

It is compared to other hobbies, although it is expensive of storage space.

I'm a wargamer, so obviously I'm cheap. If I wasn't cheap I'd have expensive hobbies, like sailing or Airsoft. Ooops.

Its a sign of the times a grotesque sense of entitlement permiates our society. You can 'have it all' except of course you can't. In fact you cannot have much of it at all. So its a bit of a shock to the terminally dumb when they find out.

I think there is a lot of 'do-it-yourself' done in wargaming from the cottage industry past and due to the modeling side of the pastime, be it scratch-building of models, the painting itself, terrain buildings and so on and so people are used to costing at raw materials levels, and not counting time. Then, because they invest the time as fun and so don't include it in their costs – this causes a disconnect for some as struggle to understand why business models cost so much – the 'I could do that for 5GBP, why the hell should I pay you 20' issue.

myrm11 -- that's it exactly. In the same vein, I was grumbling about the $200 USD an hour my lawyer charges -- quite a bit compared to what I make -- but then I realized that in my day job, I don't pay for my workspace (classroom), electricity, water, maintenance, (shared) secretaries, supplies, insurance, self employment taxes, other administrative costs, etc. The $200 USD began to look much better at that point. I think the same is true of miniatures manufacturers.

JJ gets the 'wittiest response of the month' prize.

Hey…
$2.50 USD will buy two Black Orc figs…

Ahhh…….
You've all missed the point.
What army was he selling?
And how much?
Any pictures??

I don't think I am cheap, but I do have a budget.

I'm cheap, but I also know that sometimes I can be too much.

I am cheap,but I have to be. Its the "support the family"on one income thing.

It's probably because TMP is on the internet, and on the internet, many people expect everything to be free, and excessively convenient.

Observation stolen for free from This Modern World:
picture

I am frugal. Notice, not cheap but frugal. Not going to blow hard earned money in a down economy on stuff that I can get a better deal.

"Millions for miniatures, not one penny for anything else…."

I remember when I went into acw reenactment they told the "line": I used to be rich then I became a reenactor…

same hold true for wargaming.

People dont understand the phrase, "you get what you pay for"

Having priced a job for a potential client, I have recently received the competitor's information to check for the local authority. What he provided isnt a patch on what I do and the irony of getting money to check what I would have done properly isn't missed…..and the competitor will probably end up trying to charge this client more for the 'extra' work.