"Lasalle wins best Historical Miniatures Game Rules of 2010" Topic

Congratulations Sam, you deserve it.

Emperador Carlos,

I didn't attend Historicon this year but I did buy a couple copies of Lasalle for my friends and I to try. I've read the rules and they are very professionally done. If I had attended Historicon this year I would have voted for Lasalle too. I almost only play Shako II (with a few battalions or with several divisions) and I play Shako II almost every week year round. I still would have voted for Sam's rules. A lot of work goes into a publication, testing, graphics, sound mechanics. Everyone has their own views on what works for a great game and while I'm fanatical about Shako II, Lasalle is a superb set of rules that holds its own with Shako II, Age of Eagles and others.

The true testimony to the quality of Sam's rules comes from the Historicon gamers, not any executive. Look at the convention PEL and note that there wasn't exactly a lot of Lasalle games being run while Shako II had games going all weekend. From corresponding with some other Napoleonic gamers, even though they played Shako II at the convention, they still like Lasalle and play it outside the convention.

For the record, Shako II won last year and it received a similar comment that the judging was fixed.

Sam – thick skin aside – I personally look forward to buying your next set (Blucher) just because the quality is worth it. Keep up the great work so lazy gamers like myself don't write their own (much poorer) rules.

Cheers,

Michael

Checking my calendar seems to indicate that the year 2010 is only half over, is there now a Gregorian, Julian, and a HMGS Calendar? If so, does it begin with Wally's birthday?

Maybe it's similar to a "fiscal year," running from the day after Historicon 2009 until Historicon 2010? Who knows?

I have found out why Black powder didn't win, BP get it, same as BP(british petrolium)

People problebly thought they were voting for either a nice napoleoinc rule sett or the evil corrupt enviorment destroying oil companies.

As far as I know, LaSalle has not polluted any shorelines.

Oil … that's a new twist to this thread.

Well done once again Sam, for the rules that is, not the oil!

All those fans of Black Powder don't despair. We just held a poll at our club and BP came top in the category "Best historical rehash of GW rules with lots of pretty pictures and no substance for the horse and musket period by Jervis Johnson". So there you have it. BP rules! :-)

No need to use lame sarcasm, Cartwright. If anything, it's the LaSalle rules that are GW styled, what with the emphasis on Tourney play they foster.

I stand by what I say about the inferiority of the LaSalle rules, and I feel that other sets (RtE, BP) deserved to win.

As for the voting/etc, for all you know it was rigged. I'm not suggesting it was, but it's been done in the past and there's no evidence that suggests it wasn't done, either…

Yours,

-Emperador Carlos

Congrats Sam, you deserve it!!!!.
I really like your rules. I own Might of Reason, Grand Armee and Lasalle. Your rules are extremely well organized, fun to play and have a feel for the time period and I'm looking forward to playing Blucher when it comes out.
(BTW have you read "The Hussar General" by Roger Parkinson, it's a very enjoyable book and really gave me a better understanding of the man.)

I bought Black Powder and read through it but I haven't had a chance to play it yet. Some of the members in my gaming group have bought the rules also and want to give it a try and I'm looking forward to it. It's a beautiful book and they did put a lot of money into the printing. IMHO, it seems like comparing the two rule sets is a case of "apples and oranges." However, there was a vote for one to be the winner and it was Lasalle…Huzzah.

Timo

As for the voting/etc, for all you know it was rigged. I'm not suggesting it was, but it's been done in the past and there's no evidence that suggests it wasn't done, either…

Wow, back-pedaling a third time! Actually, you didn't suggest it, you outright made that claim. But hey, who cares? The thread was all about a simple congratulations to Sam for winning. It was not started to discuss the merits of Lasalle vs. other rules, etc. Just simple pat on the back--in a cyber sort of way.

Congratulations Sam. That EC guy is just a , who cares what his opinion on anything is.

"If anything, it's the LaSalle rules that are GW styled, what with the emphasis on Tourney play they foster."

Are you kidding. GW specfically says they: Don't do tournament rules. The are for fun games.

And Secondly BP is an evolution of Warmaster & Warmaster Ancient Systems. A little further down the road, but is uses many of the mechanics.

I must say Emperador Carlos, you seem completely unable to separate personal opinion from objective judgement in respect to the Lasalle ruleset.

I think most of us understand that you do not like the rules and that is fair enough. The ruleset itself though is superbly written and most people here are simply congratulating Sam Mustafa for a job well done and a reward justly deserved.

If I were you I would take a break from this post.

As for the voting/etc, for all you know it was rigged. I'm not suggesting it was, but it's been done in the past and there's no evidence that suggests it wasn't done, either…

Well maybe the voters were talking frogs from the planet Mars? I mean, I dont know that that's the case, or have any reason to think that's the case, but anything's possible, you know.

Or maybe I'm just an idiot?

I stand by what I say about the inferiority of the LaSalle rules, and I feel that other sets (RtE, BP) deserved to win.

In your opinion, but it seems very few others. I have played BP and in my opinion they are a poor set of rules. The best you can say about them is that they are a toolbox you can pick and choose from to make you own set. I know of only one person that claims to play them "out of the box". Most have adapted them to fix the many problems they perceived with them. I'm not going to go into the why BP is pants argument again, see the other threads on here for examples. Frankly if BP had won I would have suspected a rigged vote. As for RtE I can't comment. Picked up the rules at a show and flicked through, but didn't buy them. They may be the best thing since sliced bread, but IMHO, having played both, Lasalle is streets ahead of BP.

I just heard on good authority that "Emperador Carlos" is affiliated with a rival ruleset.

Not that anyone can be too suprised …

You mean he is "rigged"? After-all, there have been other posters here on TMP that have been affiliated with other rules sets, so there's no reason to think that EC isn't just like them.

So, because there is no evidence that the voting was NOT rigged….

There is also no evidence that "Emperador Carlos" is NOT a sock puppet. Or Hitler's niece. Or Sam himself, in a clever ploy to make all his opponents look like ill mannerred jackanapes!

I see through it all! I hear that Sam teaches classes on disinformation behind closed doors!

"I just heard on good authority that "Emperador Carlos" is affiliated with a rival ruleset."

"Ill mannered jackanapes"

Haw-haw-haw.

Insulting people always works when you can't be intelligent, eh?

Anyone who doesn't like the game isn't welcome, I can see that now. No room for the opposition. perhaps there's a camp you can send me to?

Listen, this isn't the LaSalle message board, so I can trash your crummy game all I want. Enjoy your cheap award.

Insulting people always works when you can't be intelligent, eh?

Yup. Just like accusing people of stuffing the ballot boxes, or bribing judges when an election does not turn out the way you want it to.
AND, YES YOU DID MAKE THAT ACCUSATION! Right from the start, even though you seem to have backed away from it, you cannot deny that is what you were saying.

I notice that EC did not deny that he was affiliated with a rival ruleset. Interesting.

Listen, this isn't the LaSalle message board, so I can trash your crummy game all I want.

It's not the Lasalle board that much is true. But, this is a thread started to simply congratulate Sam for his award, not to discuss the merits of the game.

Enjoy your cheap award.

It's not the OFM's cheap award; it's Sam's cheap award. Let's at least get the ownership of cheap awards straight, shall we?!?!?

>>> I just heard on good authority that "Emperador Carlos" is affiliated with a rival ruleset.

Greg is back?

Allen

Actually I was just trying to make a point about spreading rumors for no good reason.

Still there is no evidence to show he is not affiliated so it might as well be true :)

Congrats to Sam.

I've played Lasalle six times in the past few months which is more Napoleonics than I've played in the past 20 years combined previous to its release! It's fun, it's quick, and it's got the right feel. But most importantly it's getting players playing Napoleonics in my area again.

The impact of Lasalle in my area indicates that the award is well deserved.

Anyone who doesn't like the game isn't welcome, I can see that now.

Actually I think the people that aren't welcome are the ones that make unsubstantiated allegations. I think you still haven't grasped that point.

Congratulations, Sam.

So what did Sam win? His own custom fitted bricole and a copy of Black Powder?

Oh,btw,how many days till we get to start bumping this thread?

Congrats Sam.

"Listen, this isn't the LaSalle message board, so I can trash your crummy game all I want. Enjoy your cheap award."

Obviously no hard feelings there then.

I'm not too sure what the significance of Emperador Carlos being 'connected' to a rival set of rules is, since I'm pretty damn certain that 'Verweil Doch', the current handle for the esteemed Sam Mustafa, is pretty intimately connected with LaSalle!

Surely the more connected a contributor is, the more relevant his post?

If the suggestion is that EC has attempted to hide his connection/interest and purport to take a disinterested or neutral stand I could understand that this might be considered a relevant revelation, but I don't think he has exactly concealed his opinion of LaSalle!

Oh well, we have balance now, I suppose. EC makes no bones of his disdain for 'Lasalle', while KevanG takes every opportunity (including this thread) of running down 'Black Powder'.

I guess it just goes to show what happens when two individuals' personal dislike for one set or rules or the other ignores and over-rides the obvious liking that many other wargamers have for each rule-set.

I would like to congratulate Sam for the win.

Insulting people always works when you can't be intelligent, eh?

Anyone who doesn't like the game isn't welcome, I can see that now. No room for the opposition. perhaps there's a camp you can send me to?

Listen, this isn't the LaSalle message board, so I can trash your crummy game all I want. Enjoy your cheap award.

Completely irrational. Stifle coming up.

Congratulations Sam.

The hobby was fortunate enough to get several excellent rules sets over the past year and LaSalle certainly deserved recognition. That by no means diminishes the other new rules and whether LaSalle, Black Powder, Republic & Empire, Shako II or Grande Armee floats your boat, be greatful we have such wonderful choices.

For anyone who prefers wild and irresponsible allegations based on nothing more than half-arsed rumors, innuendo and the odd radio wave from space aliens penetrating the tin foil, that does no author, rules set or the hobby in general a bit of good.

I'm not too sure what the significance of Emperador Carlos being 'connected' to a rival set of rules is,…

No relevance. It was sarcasm.

Hey! Who took away my cheap award?

Terry 1956 did it first and was much more entertaining while he was at it. That was a fantastic thread.

Congratulations Sam! Thanks for taking the time and effort to produce Lasalle. I've really enjoyed it!

This thread ranks along with the recent 'Empire Rules' debate. I think Historicon should run a poll next year for best TMP thread that has 'dog with a bone' theme. Keep it up fellas, I'm enjoying this one ….

"Oh well, we have balance now, I suppose. EC makes no bones of his disdain for 'Lasalle', while KevanG takes every opportunity (including this thread) of running down 'Black Powder'."

I take exception to this…..I have never suggested that votes are rigged nor that awards were paid for and I have only ever directed my distain for mechanisms and expressed what it is I dislike regarding those said mechanisms within BP and have never dragged any other ruleset into any discussion because it is irrelevant regarding BP mechanisms. I do not see the emperador doing any of that regarding Lasalle. We know nothing of what he considers is 'wrong' in Lasalle, apart from 'overly complex'.

EH? Is he looking at the same rules?

I suspect from comments made on this thread that people like Fred Cartwright, Allen Curtis and many others will have very similar concerns, but just arent as vocal nor as politically incorrect about it as 'lil olde me'….and that is the type of person who would have voted for Lasalle….

My apologies for making assumptions and taking liberties with naming the 2 gentlemen above.

I think it's somewhat of a shame that sma1941 has been sent into canine confinement for merely stating the obvious re the irritating, ill-mannered, illogical poster who offers this as an example of joined-up thinking:
'As for the voting/etc, for all you know it was rigged. I'm not suggesting it was, but it's been done in the past and there's no evidence that suggests it wasn't done, either… '
Makes Terry 1956 sound like Wittgenstein. And if that gets me dogged, I don't care.There's a first time for everything, so they say.

Hi
Well done Sam on getting a cheap award for a cracking good set of rules.
I'm sure LaSalle isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I think they are great.

As for Emperor Carlos' comments.
What a load of drivel. His latest comment:
"Listen, this isn't the LaSalle message board, so I can trash your crummy game all I want. Enjoy your cheap award".
Speaks volumes.
What a meanspirited jerk!
and:
"As for the voting/etc, for all you know it was rigged. I'm not suggesting it was, but it's been done in the past and there's no evidence that suggests it wasn't done, either…"

Well, there's no proof I didn't invent the airplane, but those damb Wright brother's still got all the credit!
EC, word's fail me,…
Hey maybe EC IS Terry1956! There's no proof he isn't!

All this freedom of speech crap makes me laugh.. by jumping on this thread, which is a congratulatory thread for Sam's game, you're simply rude. You're rude and ignorant.

Anyone who says people are allowed their opinion you're right, however there's a time and place. Also I hope none of you have ever stiffled anyone on here.. now that would be hypocritical indeed.

TW.

Congrats Sam. I've lost Mt Pumblechook for hours and hours to Lasalle, so it must be good ;-)

I just wonder if EC would have held the same opinion about the award process had BP or another one of his favorite games won the award?

EC: "Wow, BP won historical game of the year … that would have been great (it was well deserved), but the award selection process is rigged and the judges were bribed."

I might have. The fact that such an unworthy system won is what raised so many red flags, though…

… is what raised so many red flags, though…

WHAT RED FLAGS???
Are you still holding on to those …odd… theories about bribery and corruption?
Just WHAT is your justification for that, besides the fact (the only one you have owned up to) that your choice did not win? That is what polls and elections are about. Someone wins, someone loses. More often than not, it is not my choice that wins.

If ever there were someone who cried out to be stifled…
However, you would have to keep on unstifling him just to see what new weirdness he came up with.

The pattern of non-sequitur, constantly-shifting invective, and then claims of martyrdom, references to oppressed "plebs" and being "sent to a camp," and so on… is very reminiscent of a previous visitor who pops up from time to time with a new moniker on TMP to rant about this game.

As everybody knows, this is a phenomenon in our hobby that spikes in proportion to any game that achieves any level of popularity. The more successful ones like Flames of War and the GW or Foundry products, have twenty times more of this, on an almost daily basis.

Those authors are a lot smarter than me, and long ago learned not to stick their hands in these sorts of tar babies. One of these days, I guess, I'll learn.

But Thank You – again, to everybody for all the best wishes, and I hope everybody who bought Lasalle has had much fun gaming with it.

Sam

wow. page 4.
congratulations Sam.

- The fact that such an unworthy system won is what raised so many red flags, though… -

Ah, yes, a logical conclusion to reach. You don't like it, it won something, therefore the award process was rigged.
Makes perfect sense.

so many red flags

Four pages and one flag. Perhaps a trip to the dictionary for the meaning of the word 'many' is in order?