"lancers de Mancha" Topic

Gentlemen the colours of this unit are known
to a fair degree i just wondered about its actual
exsistence as having fought for Joseph Napoleon
and other snippets are the little information we
can glean, maybe some of our Iberian Buddies can
enlighten us

regards
Ged
gjm.figurines

ps the uniform itsself is stunning and i have
had 28mm figures commissioned for this regiment
available from Eagle Figures uk

I'm interested too! I've had a bag of these guys, in 15mm from Battle Honors for years and I'd like to know where they fit in to the scheme of things!

Abelp01…………Knotel does a print of them with
their havanna brown uniform and the reds and yellows
they look stunning…….and with the Raupenhelm they
look the business.

Hey, jammy four,
I have the OLD osprey book on the Spanish Army and it's truly a stunning uniform.
I've just never been able fit them into a historical context. Were they ever in combat against the British? What battles, etc?

Abel

Abel

as far a i know they were involved fighting guirallias
and in smaller skirmishers………..not against the brits

regards
Ged
PS These skirmishes were to the death spaniard against
spaniard……………gulp!!!

regards
Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk

Thanks, JJ! I read the same on line, but hoped they might've been in major combat! Oh well, time for "Songs of Drums and Shakos"!

Abelp01 as they "may" have been ficticious feel free to
have them in any major combat you fancy……….

regards
Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk

ps they would add colour too any major battle!!

The unit was not a fantasy, but it was also not a part of the army of King Joseph.

It is now clear that Aaron Martinet made a mistake : he identified a unit called "lanceros de la Mancha" as one of Jospeh's army. It was in fact a "Bourbon" Spanish unit, raised by the Junta and bearing the monogram of Ferdinand VII on their shabraques.

Knötel (the Elder) amplified Martinet's error (managing also to "create" 7 imaginary regiments of Josephine cavalry !) and, until more recent research led by Dr. Luis Sorando y Muzŕs, most unifomologists have followed Knötel.
From Knötel, after Martinet :
picture

Here is a contemporary notice about the unit, fighting with Juan Martín Díez ("El Empecinado") near Cuenca (July 1811) :
link

See ….

"El enigma de los lanceros de la Mancha"
Juan J. Sańudo, Luis Sorando & Henry Claude Achard
Researching & Dragona nş 2, paginas 47-51

"Les sources classiques sur l'armée de Joseph Napoléon roi d'Espagne : une analyse critique"
Luis Sorando & Massimo Florentino (trans.)
Soldats Napoléoniens Hors-série nş 1, avril 2003

"La cavalerie de ligne espagnole de Joseph – 1čre partie : les chasseurs ŕ cheval"
Luis Sorando Muzŕs, Patrice Courcelle (illus.) & Massimo Fiorentino (trans.)
Soldats Napoléoniens n° 5, mars 2005

==================================================

There was a squadron sized unit of lancers in Joseph's army, usually identified as the "lanceros de Sevilla", under the command of colonel Aguado. They were trained by the 7th (ex- Vistula) lancers, and wore a blue trimmed chamois uniform modelled after the uniform of thier mentors.

See ….

Spanish Armies of the Napoleonic Wars (1812-1815)
René Chartrand & Bill Younghusband (illus.)
Osprey Men-at-Arms nş 334, 1999

"El primer regimiento de lanceros espańoles, 1811-1813"
Luis Sorando
Researching & Dragona – nş 4, 48-54

Alejandro Aguado : militar, banquero, mecenas
Armando Rubén Puente
Madrid : Editorial Edibesa, 2007

==================================================

Back among the "Bourbon" Spanish, there was another unit of lancers that operated in the New Castille-La Mancha area, the "lanceros de Castilla", with D. Julián Sánchez ("El Charro") as their commander. A rather larger unit (perhaps fielding up to 750 mounted men), they were uniformed as hussars.

Here is a image drawn from life by Denis Dighton in 1812 :
picture

I Nabok
not sure why you were deleted i hope it was interesting!!

appreciate the aformentioned information much of which is

new to me…….!!

Question, where did you manage to obtain the Dennis Dighton

image, incredible

so in essence the uniform is correct bar the wrong monogram

as my spanish is poor

regards

Ged

gjm.figurines.co.uk

I deleted my own mistaken post (wrong thread).

---------

The Dighton image is from a Spanish blog. I was just googling along in French and Spanish looking for some details on these units. And there it was! See the (non-elite ?) guy in shako in the background ? See the beards ? See the brown/morrocan boots and leather inset in the overalls ? Pretty kewl, I think.

---------

Even the monogram is about correct (certainly OK for a miniature), if the original Martinien image was correct (there is a photo of the Martinien in one of the magazine articles I listed). Knötel (the image I posted) copied Martinien just fine – he just added a trumpeter, an officer …. and 7 regiments of imaginary cavalry.

Martinien's only "known" error (he may have made others) was thinking that the unit was French-allied. They were the on the other side.

thanks so much Nabok some some great detective work there

i guess my unit will have to fight for the other side now

but in my minds eye they are very french looking!!

its fascinating how mistakes in uniforms pile up

still thats half the fun disceminating the truth!!

regards

Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk
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