"Coraceros espanoles" Topic

I have posted the history of this regiment in my blog.

tocdesomatent.blogspot.com

The text is bilingual catalan/english

Please take a look.

It's absolutely great to learn that history. Thanks for your time and effort to provide it for the rest of us.

Rick

Muchas gracias Oriol!.

A very good job!.
Many people had asked for the Coraceros of Spain here.
You help with your info a lot!.

Amicalement
Armand

great stuff………….much of it new to me.
regards
Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk

ps do you any other small action info on
spanish cavalry regiments?

Gracias, caballero.

Coraceros espanoles 1811 Campaign Dress
Note the Grey Pants with blue stripe.
picture

Appears the jackets were supplied by the British whilst the breast plates and saddle furniture were from captured French stock, including from Bailen.

Some more prints:
link

picture

Pic of Coraceros Regiment Corunna (Re-enactors)
picture
picture

Article:
link

Nicely done, thank you.

Is it my eyes, my monitor, or do we have two different color facings for this unit. If one looks at the colors used by the illustrators, and reenactors for that matter, it seems to be either green or blue. See EACH of the about links provided by BravoX (thank you!) for the distinct differences.

It would seem the blue facings be the most logical based on the popularity of the colour with the Spanish, but the lighter green also could be used and looks good (grin)

So a quick poll: green or blue?

I am aware of this problem.

The first link in Mr. BravoX message comes from the book Uniformes Espanoles de la Guerra de la Independencia of the spanish uniformologist Jose Maria Bueno.
In this book appears this mounted figure and another figure,on foot, with green facings.

The second link is from the book of Conde de Clonard Historia Organica de las armas de infanteria i caballeria an exhaustive study of the spanish regiments. Is the inspiration for the second figure of Mr. Bueno.

I suppose that since the regiment was formed from different sources: Brittish uniforms, french weapons and spanish troops it could have different colours in the same regiment. It only was two squadron strong. Maybe each squadron had its own colour?

It was formed from troops of the Husares de Granada and of the Cazadores de Olivenza. Maybe each regiment kept their colours? I am sure that Olivenza had green uniforms but I dont know which was the uniform of the Husares de Granada.

It's difficult to say but I believe that both colours were mixed so my troops are painted 2 in green and 2 in blue.

I believe the answer is this:

There are 3 Regiments Coraceros.
1st Kings Coraceros
2nd Queens Coraceros
3rd Spanish Coraceros

facings are white, blue, green respectively.

The pic in the OP's blog picture clear ly show '3' on the portmanteau consistent with being the 3rd 'Coraceros Espanoles', this matches to the second pic I linked too link which has green facings. Note saddle cloth is green with a white border and white sheepskin shabraque.

Compare that to this pic link which is the Kings Coraceros which has a white collar, blue saddle cloth with a red border and no sheepskin shabraque.

The first image I linked to picture shows blue collar blue saddle cloth with a white border and white sheepskin shabraque. I believe this is actually meant to be the 2nd Queens Coraceros

The last pic also show epaulettes with a fringe. I believe officers may have been distinguished by the fringe.

Inconsitencies or question marks:
2nd/3rd have white border to the saddlecloth, the pic of the 1st has a red border, is that correct or a mistake in the plate?
The pic of the 1st also has no sheepskin shabraque, is that just missed or did the 1st really not have a sheepskin shabraque.

Notes:
All 3 I believe show the lining of the cuirass was red.

Maybe BravoX is right but I think that this three regiments were created in 1815 in the reform of the Spanis Army (as it says in the webpage of the reenactors). During the Peninsular War only one regiment was present.
I didn't realise that the drawing in my blog had a number 3 so this regiment should be a post-war regiment.

Ah yes I think that is correct.
The cavalry were reorganized in Jan 1815.

So that would make the original pic on the OP blog a post-reorganization 3rd Coraceros.

So if during the Peninsular War there is just simply the Coraceros Espanoles it would be a reasonable guess that their uniform was the same/similar to when they became the 3rd Regiment Coraceros.
Does that mean they would not of had the '3' on the portemanteau?

The two images from Conde de Clonard Historia Organica de las armas de infanteria i caballeria , the King Coraceros (white facings) is dated 1815, the other Coraceros Espanoles with green facings is dated 1810-1811.

Dear jammy four. Almost all the spanish cavalry actions in the peninsular war were small. There was a true lack of horses and the small amount of cavalry was dividen between the brigades resulting in disasters when fighting the french in regular battles.

I have a lot of information mainly of the Catalonia theater Soon I will post more things.

Oriol,

I'm looking forward to those posts.

Rick

Also just to note a typo in my original post, which is obvious if you looked a the pic, the campaign dress grey pants have a red stripe not blue as I typed (brain fade).

Also based on the re-enactors article and the OP's blog, the equipment from Bailen was not used by the Coraceros (as erroneously stated on TMP in the past) but was stored and returned to France in 1810 and the source of equipment is from 3rd Provisional Cuirassiers at the battle of Mollet del Vallčs.

Excellent observations by everyone. This exchange of information is the TRUE benefit of the TMP. Thank you BravoX and all for your insights.

A question mark on the 3rd Provisional Cuirassier Regiment.

From what I have read:
Napoleon formed three provisional cuirassier regiments for the campaign in Spain. The first two regiments were formed in Tours in November of 1807 while the 3rd Provisional Regiment was formed in Poitiers in 1808.

The 2nd Provisional Regiment was captured at Baylen. On 24 December 1809 the 1st Provisional Regiment was reinforced with the remnants of the 2nd Regiment and became the 13e Cuirassiers.

The 3rd Regiment was, however, disbanded in Barcelona early in 1811.

'disbanded' ?

Disbanded because the had been destroyed the previous year (Mollet is just north of Barcelona).

I was preparing the history of the regiment as a new post for my blog.

Here a small preview: In 1810 about 200 cuirassiers from the 3rd provisional were killed or captured in Mollet del Valles (NE of Barcelona). The prisoners were taken to the fortress of Lleida (or Lerida in Spanish) and the equipment was used to create the Coraceros Espanoles Rgt.

The 13th regiment (formed as you said with the 1st and the remmants of the 2nd) was fighting in Aragon under Suchet. When Suchet entered in Catalonia and conquered Lleida (April 1810) the french prisoners were liberated and incorporated into the 13th.

Ah interesting Oriol.

This is from
Osprey 332 Spanish Army of the Napoleonic Wars(2)
Coraceros Espanoles formed 24 May 1810 in Reus Tarragona.
6 companies of 70 men in 2 sqaudrons.
Equipped with weapons, cuirasses and helmets captured by the Numancia Dragoon Regiment from the French 13eme Cuirassiers at the battle of Mollet. Only one squadron received the cuirass and helmet

The uniform was a red coatee with green collar and cuffs, white piping and turnbacks, pewter buttons, white pantaloons, black high boots and a white cape. The white sheepskins were edge with red wolfsteeth and the green housing with white lace.

The source for this is claimed to be "Conde de Clonard Album de la Caballeria".

Also from Osprey 332 Spanish Army of the Napoleonic Wars(2)
The Cazadores de Olivenza also were used to form the Husares de Grenade in June 1808.

For sure Clonard is one of the best sources available.
However my information comes from a CD with regimental historials edited by the spanish Ministerio de Defensa. They have access to Clonard, personal records and other sources from the period.

It says that the 13th cuirassiers entered Catalonia the 19th of May 1810. The battle of Mollet was the 20th of January 1810. In this battle the 2n squadron 3rd Provisional Cuirassiers was destroyed or captured. As you said, it agrees with the information "disbanded". The 3rd Prov. no longer existed in 1811 it was absorbed in the 13th.

I didn't know the information related with Husares de Granada. And I made a typing mistake in the blog I wrote founded the 4th and it was the 24th as you said.
Thank you

Yes I totally agree with you Oriol.

I reached the same conclusion as according to Nafziger at the time of Mollet (Jan 1810) the 3rd Prov were with Augereau whilst the 13eme Cuirassier were with Suchet and therefore couldn't be at Mollet and I assumed the confusion arose because eventually the remnants of the 3rd Prov end up with the 13eme Cuirassier. This then fits with the 3rd Prov being eventually disbanded.

Its a fascinating story!

If it is true only the first squadron received the cuirass that resolves the colors issue, though I wonder what the second squadron headgear was, and were they permanently without cuirass or did they acquire some later.

Anyway I am looking forward to you future blog posts, great stuff!

Coņo, oriol, tengo 9 coraceros de perry imprimando y ya no se que hacer con ellos…. porras. Yo que tenia muy claro que iban a ser franchutes y mira tu por donde ahora soy un mar de dudas despues de ver los espaņoles…

Lo bueno es que son baratos. Si cuando acabas los espanoles quieres franceses pues compras ora caja y listos!

No me tientes… ahora pensaba en la de húsares, sabes si la de dragones tiene opcion para hacerlos dragones de la emperatriz??

Oriol

fascinating detail from you ,could we have an english
translation of the last three posyings??
i get the gist but not the full flavour

thanks
Ged
gjm.figurines.co.uk

Damm, oriol, i have nine perrys cuirqassiers waiting on the workbench, but now i dont know what to do, to paint them as french or as spanish… i hasitate

more or less…

The good thing about them is that they are cheap. If you finnish painting spanish and then you want french, just buy another box.

Spanish for me they are prettier!!

and far more exotic

i finally paint them as french, 7th cuirasiers. But Oriol, i will buy another plastic box and go for the spanish…

Que viva la roja!!