"Most interesting persona from the Wars of the Roses?" Topic

Obviously lots of people to choose from! Ill list some of the more (in)famous, but feel free to suggest your own. Try and limit yourself to a top 5 if possible:

Henry Tudor (ie. Henry VII)
Henry VI
Edward of Westminster (PoW)
(Queen) Margaret of Anjou
Richard, Duke of York
Edward IV
Richard III
Jasper Tudor
Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick (The "Kingmaker")
Richard Neville, 5th Earl of Salisbury (Warwicks father)
Elizabeth Woodville
Henry Holland, 3rd Duke of Exeter
George, Duke of Clarence
Lord William Hastings
John Neville, 1st Marquess of Montagu (Warwicks brother)
William Neville, 1st Earl of Kent (Warwicks uncle)
John de Vere, 13th Earl of Oxford
Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset
Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland
Edmund, Earl of Rutland
Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland
Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland
Humphrey Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham
Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham
Edward V
Sir John de Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
Henry Beaufort, 3rd Duke of Somerset
John Clifford, 9th Baron de Clifford
Perkin Warbeck
Lambert Simnel
John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln
Martin Schwartz
Francis Lovell, Viscount Lovell
Andrew Trollope
(Queen) Elizabeth of York
Archbishop Thomas Bourchier
Edmund Grey, 1st Earl of Kent
Thomas Neville, "The Bastard of Fauconberg"
Rhys ap Thomas
William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke ("Raglan")

Sorry if I missed your favorite!

My top 5 in order:

1) Earl of Warwick (The "Kingmaker")
2) Henry VII
3) Richard III
4) Henry VI
5) John de Vere, 13th Earl of Oxford

Warwick the Kingmaker.

Afterall he did get an Avalon Hill game named after him.

Richard III gets all the good lines.

Warwick
Richard III
Henry Tudor

Person would be the better term, or character, rather than persona.

Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick
Edward IV
Richard Duke of York
Richard III
Queen Margaret

Edward IV – he got all the girls…..

No brainer…

Pete Rose.

In reality, for me,
John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln
Thomas Neville, "The Bastard of Fauconberg"

Oh, the Duke of Clarence, for his oeneological demise in a butt of Malmsey!

Surely, Richard, the Duke of Glouster, and later Richard III, is the most charismatic, dramatic, perhaps the most maligned by propaganda, and an all-around fascinating Type-A personality!

Shakespeare thought so-good enough for me.

(And a terrific game from Columbia Games!)

Yep, with a moniker like "Dick Crookback" – look no further.

Yep, with a moniker like "Dick Crookback" – 'nuff said.

There is no real evidence that Richard II had such a deformity:
link

What about Kathleen Turner?

who was the muppet who changed sides about six times, before someone got miffed and executed him ?

I liked the duke of Oxford, fighting in plate at the age of 60. Good man.

"Dick Crookback"

maybe that was his porn name ?

"Dick Crookback"

maybe that was his porn name ?

It seems that it was Shakespeare who gave him that epithet.

Edward IV
Richard III
John Clifford
Warwick "The Kingmaker"
Queen Margaret

Sir Jethro de Bodine

Why do we "vote" now and in a poll later. Seems odd to me.

Oh, Warback and Simnel and Dickon the 3rd for me; all others are just in the background….

"Oxford" survived the lot and ended up on the right side.

Charles, duke of Burgundy!

Though his involvement was somewhat indirect.

Queen Margaret, someone who knew who to hold a grudge.

Richard III
Ralph Percy
Jasper Tudor
John Neville
Earl Rivers

"Why do we "vote" now and in a poll later. Seems odd to me."

You're not voting now. Simply making suggestions for inclusion in the list for the poll.

I'll take the three Beauforts, Edmund, Henry and Edmund. The first for his abiltiy to hang on to power despite several imprisonments and losing France, the second for his ability and the third for his tenacity.

TPC

Black Adder and like the inclusion of Lambert Simnel.

Didn't Marie have someone nailed to the wall? ??? Edmund . .??

mjc

Jenkin's Ear

Well, you did miss my favorite: the sadistic John Tiptoft, Earl of Worcester. Can't have a wargame without a sadistic nobleman, y'know! You also missed Jack Cade, the mercenary who led a great rebellion in 1450.

Who the hell was Martin Schwartz? Sounds like a Hollywood producer.

Wasn't Martin Schwartz a HRE or Swiss mercenary that came to England – maybe at Stoke?

"Didn't Marie have someone nailed to the wall? ??? Edmund . .??"

No idea. Who is Marie anyway?

"Wasn't Martin Schwartz a HRE or Swiss mercenary that came to England – maybe at Stoke?"

Yup, Martin Schwarz was a German mercenary, killed at Stoke 1487.

… and it's him I'd like to get more information on. Especially in regard to depicting him (and his troops) on tabletop.

"… and it's him I'd like to get more information on."

Google is your friend:
link
PDF link
link
link
PDF link

Perkin Warbeck – with a name like that he deserved a shot at the throne..god save king perkin!! Love it.

"Perkin Warbeck"

And its another good porn name!

"and it's him I'd like to get more information on. Especially in regard to depicting him (and his troops) on tabletop."

Matheo, here are two good reads on Stoke and Martin Swartz:
link
link
For appropriate 25mm minis, try these:
link

@Mike Snorbens, several comments so far, but no vote Mike?

Re: "Person would be the better term, or character, rather than persona."

Persona: "The role that one assumes or displays in public or society; one's public image or personality, as distinguished from the inner self."

Yep, thats pretty much what I was looking for! ;-)

"@Mike Snorbens, several comments so far, but no vote Mike?"

They are ALL interesting people, that's one reason why the WOTR is such a fascinating period.
It would be invidious of me to single out even five in what amounts to little more than a popularity contest.

Boooo! You gotta make tough calls in life sometimes! (Even in TMP polls!).

"Boooo! You gotta make tough calls in life sometimes! (Even in TMP polls!)."

Er … no, participation in the TMP community is entirely voluntary.

Besides, how can you possibly choose between say the Earl of Warwick (about whom we know quite a lot) and say Edmund Grey, 1st Earl of Kent (about whom we know very little)??

Lack of knowledge of the latter will inevitably lead to the selection of the better known (and thus more popular) former.

Also, there are several interesting characters from the period missing from your list. For example (another Grey), Sir John Grey of Groby, whose untimely death at Second St Albans changed forever the course of English history.

Tut Tut, All named so far except for the best. My nominations in no particular order:

1) Sir Francis Lovell.
For keeping the fight going past all logical sense and then 'disappearing' after the battle to give rise to a great legend that he was hidden in the cellars of the family home at Minster Lovell in Oxfordshire and fed by an aged servant. Servant drops dead with key to (locked) cellar and Lovell starves to death, not found till many years later;

2) Duke of Somerset: 'cos when he 'axes' a subordinate they stay axed;

and 3) Sir Richard Harliston. He is sent by Edward IV to recapture Jersey from the French 'cos Margaret had sold the Channel Islands to her relations to raise money for the Lancastrian cause. Harliston re-takes the island but then creates it as his own private fief and has to be removed by force by his own side!

"2) Duke of Somerset: 'cos when he 'axes' a subordinate they stay axed;"

Would that be the 2nd Duke or the 3rd Duke?

Wasn't Richard the III gay? Oh wrong poll.
VR
James Mattes

"who was the muppet who changed sides about six times, before someone got miffed and executed him ?"

think you got the wrong war … apart from the appellation, this sounds like Hurry.

REddrabs,

no, I remember a bit about this guy in Bloody Barons, but cannot remember his name. I will have to dig out the rulebook now..

Thomas Malory. Went round robbing & raping & wrote Le Morte D'Arthur in prison

John wenlock

that was the s name.

Mace 1, wenlock 0.

"Wasn't Richard the III gay?"

There was a film where Richard Dreyfuss plays an actor playing Richard III as camp… can't remember what it was called though

>>>There was a film where Richard Dreyfuss plays an actor playing Richard III as camp… can't remember what it was called though

The Goodbye Girl.

William Neville, Earl of Kent

Small of stature but big of heart. An underrated general of the Wars.

cheers

FM

What about the Stanley brothers?

Maybe Andrew Trollope?

Darrell.