"Let's save some time..." Topic

BWAHAAHAHAHAAAAA!!! Just to keep this hornet's nest astir, here's my blog updated with the photos of HaT ArmourFast kits I've painted, the very same pix I sent to HaT *in gratis* for them to use (which they didn't AFAIK):

link

As for young pups wanting to learn the fine art of painting miniatures and models well, I take the time to *teach* what I've learned over 300-odd years of gaming, do so gladly at conventions (usually all-day events for free), and encourage the newbies at every turn. Why? 'Cause I'm *evil* that way….

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Allen wrote

Sites like the Lead Adventure Forum, or Steve Dean's, provide great inspiration. Seeing what people post there makes me want to go over to the painting table and pick up a brush.

Is TMP to be the "ho-hum" standard in comparison? I hope not. And if that's elitism and snobbery, great.

Given that people can't post their pics on TMP that's a bit of an academic question.

He he he, three whole pages spawned by one 'angry Allen' rant. Wonder where he scarpered off to?

Allen's checked into a monastery for some quiet contemplation.

He *did* adversely critique the stained glass windows inb the church, though ("glazed tat…")

Nice work, Leland. And they're great photos, too.

@Guynemer
"I don't tell people to shut up for complaining about painting skills"
Actually what you said was anyone who didn't support you should shut their hole.

But have we got the legs for 4 pages now……

Only

one

way

to

find

out.

Letīs discuss bricoles

Or broccoli

Or the differences and similarities of these two phenomena

I wonder how many posts it takes to fill a page?

What are bricoles anyway?

I always assumed that part of the purpose of HaT's ETS feature is to encourage kids in the hobby by publishing their work – the youngest I remember seeing was six years old. Sneering at them is like viewing a primary school's art room and grumbling that the work is immature, and not as good as Vermeer…

Very good point and good analogy.

Actually AFAIK when we visit the 'primary school' we don't say anything bad in front of the children there as we recognise children are sensitive flowers who can't be treated in the same way as adults.

But when we are in the local art gallery we usually like to look at maybe a Vermeer to inspire us even though we know we can't achieve that level, some of us may not even paint but we just like to look at quality art, however when someone puts some pre school child art in an adult gallery it tends to get commented on as adult work.

AFAIK no one objects to crap posted on ETS, the issue is about links to crap being posted on TMP, actually the issue is not even about HaT, if Perry did a pre-school art wall on their site and people posted links to it every day on TMP the reaction would be the same.

If you don't wan't to upset people who paint like six year olds the answer is simple, don't post their stuff here.

Actually from the thread I read on HaT Forums it seemed most over there had never even heard of TMP and only became aware of this when certain people went over there and made them aware of it, maybe those people and those who keep posting links on TMP to ETS crap have their own agenda I don't know.

Anyway the responsibiity lies with those who are chosing to post the crap here, not with those here telling it as it is.

To any Hatter, if you don't like the comments stay in HatLand and post to your hearts content on the play school artwall, quite simple isn't it. On the other hand if you continue to post links here accept that comments will be made, both positive and negative, just as is done for anyone else, no special case should be made for HaT fans.

If you don't wan't to upset people who paint like six year olds the answer is simple, don't savage their paintwork in the most boorish way possible.

If you have to comment, point out that you donīt like their work and preferably explain why. You might even provide (if you have any…) some advice. Who knows if you might improve someoneīs painting?

And calling something "crap" when it clearly isn't doesn't help either.

Is this a case of paint as I say not paint as I do?

'What are bricoles anyway?'

Short and simple? A leather harness to assist a crew in towing/repositioning their artillery piece.

And calling something "crap" when it clearly isn't doesn't help either.

Is this a case of paint as I say not paint as I do?

If I think its crap I call it that, I don't call it "interesting".

Do I have to paint better than Picasso in order to pass comment, or play better than Tiger Woods in order to comment on his play?

I can tell what is crap even if its only as good as I could do myself, the difference being I don't feel the need to post my stuff on TMP and ask members to look at it.

If you don't wan't to upset people who paint like six year olds…

Who said I don't want to upset them? Personally I don't care, from this thread its HaT fans who seem to have a problem with comments not me.

@ Bravox

Your opinion is, shall we say, "interesting"?

BTW do you take vitamins? I think you need an irony pill.

Actually I do reserve the right to call items marked as "proffesionally painted" on eBay when they are clearly NOT as advertised, as "crap". Be they HaT or otherwise.

Given that they are sometimes falsely marketted and want to be paid for it, just like "crap" tv commercials, they deserve all the negative attention they seem to get here on TMP.

Even though I often hear my kids calling contributions to a tv art show as their equivalent of "crap". But they are five so it may be expected.

I have followed the HAT website forum for years and have noticed that many of the painters of plastic miniatures are improving as they keep posting.I think that it is a learning by doing hobby,and they wiil progress beyond where they are now by posting,painting and providing inspiration for others to take up the hobby,or reenter the hobby,after leaving it. Descartes

Goldy – let's not bring eBay professional paint jobs into this please.

I think what we are really talking about is whether:

a) someone needs to keep posting links to HaT's ETS site (no – which to be fair to Allen is his point)

b) should people call such paint jobs crap (again, I would prefer "no", but Bx and I have had this discussion and I know what he means, so I will not go there)

c) people who paint in a more simplistic style on ETS get upset by TMP

4 pages here we come

I would like to see more updates from the HaT website.And also more notifications of releases.I understand that they are releasing their line of El Cid figures soon,and that they look very good.-descartes

Agree with what Marc says.

I will say though, we have had links to some fantastic looking Victrix and Perry plastics posted on here and I don't understand why HaT fans can't manage to post something similar, is it good painters don't paint HaT or HaT are hard to paint or good painters don't post to ETS or the painting style of HaT fans is far removed from the style that is common on TMP.

..and for the record I call my own stuff crap, and AFAIK I haven't called anyone who posts here figures crap, that is reserved for third parties posting links to badly painted figures who ask me to go look at those figures and I presume want comment.

Your wish is my command:

picture

picture

picture

I hope these links work. They are examples of the very talented work of Mr Bruno Arnal – a master painter of soft plastic figures.

His general website link is, I hope:

link

Well there you go, that's much more like it, you wouldn't see the word crap if thats what was being posted….

If that was the standard Amand's half dozen a day HaT links were pointing to there wouldn't be much of an issue, we might just suggest that they belong in the various Gallery boards on TMP but there would be no complaint about the painting.

Bravo, Bravox.
This is real progress. You may not recognise irony but you have now starting to avoid gross generalisations and shot-gun attacks. There's hope for you. Clearly you do not have to like every figure you see but blanket condemnation is to be avoided.

Try to make constructive comments such as "This figure would benefit from dry-brushing or at least the dipping method" rather than just "It's crap!" and you will become a useful critic and not just white noise.

Yeah Bx – I really love this guy's work – I hope everyone who reads this thread checks his work out (not just HaT – his Zvezda and Italeri stuff is truly fantastic).

The real shame is that he does not paint for ETS, but for his own competition entries, but still nice to savour such quality – and I enjoy high quality paintwork whatever the material, scale or period.

ETS though is more for soft plastic fans, and so cross posting needs to be more carefully considered – which brings us back to Allen's original post.

The only progress is someone has finally posted a link to a HaT figure that wasn't crap.

… and little surprise that Marc was the one to do it.

I don't understand why HaT don't pay this guy to paint all their 'official' publicity shots .

So, no progress then?

Keep trying.We haven't written you off yet.

More "craplastic" stuff:

link

"craplastic
Love that phrase, I might 'adopt' it .

Think that link is the same as one of Amand many posts, but he has so many its not surprising if you miss the odd dozen here or there.

I think the actual models are good, the Chariots are really great, impressive even, I wouldn't call the paint job crap but would call it 'basic' i.e. the sort of level I would hope to be able to achieve myself, its basic block painting, no shading, no eyes etc. your average gamers quality not likely to wow anyone.

To some extent it depends on how you are judging the figures, when they are scratch built your more judging the figures than the paint job, if they are a stock manufacturers figures your judging the paint job not the actual figures.

I will say in general, often 1/72 pics suffer from the pictures being taken too close so you see too much detail, i.e. all the imperfections, streaky paint where it wasn't thinned enough before it was applied, uneven surfaces or surfaces that should have been smoothed down before painting etc.

Blimey that Bruno bloke is a talented git isn't he? Nice post Marc.

Still going i see. Just not a fourth page yet?

@ BravoX
See? You can make balanced comments!

I don't necessarily agree with what you wrote but it's so much better than a blanket condemnation.

Oh & BTW there's a royalty on the phrase 'craplastic". Send me 2c every time you use it.
cheers, Rad.

Four?

Guess not.

Where's the fourth page? You lot aren't trying hard enough.

Oh, but we are.

But you need to be provocative in your posts so I can get on my plastic hobby horse (same as a normal wooden one but with bendy legs and flaky paint work) to defend my bendy fellows, and Bx to (quite rightly) call a spade a digging implement.

The problem is that a lot of Armand's links are to paintjobs that really do not warrant too much detailed attention, and so the whole vicious circle starts off.

So I reckon 4 is realistic.

One

Two

Three

Four!

I KNEW it!

OK here we go. I think plastics are the one true class of miniatures that are sculpted anatomically. Historical wargaming is not even possible without them. I mean, if yer soldiers donīt look like proper humans, how can it be historical?

That should easily get us to five

You do know you can get dawghoused for that…. (I only found out yesterday)