"Let's save some time..." Topic

LOL, Fair enough guys! I'm glad to see some younger gents using the plastic kits. I have Zvezda myself. I never see these things in gaming shops, only in specialized hobby shops.

Great paint jobs on those, Pat!

Steve

Must be getting old, agree with all that curtis has posted on this thread.

Additionally, as I have said many times before I think HaT do themselves no favor when they go and promote their stuff with some of this crap …. but HaT fans seem to love it. :)

It's people enjoying their hobby and all credit to HAT for letting them post. My own skill levels have gone down – partly age, partly choice – to the level that my son cringes, but so what? Frankly, I think the site is great, lots of dross yes, but also lots of evidence of a healthy hobby.

nycjadie, I'm 30 and buy HaT, have been for years. A lot of the hobby shops I've frequented sell HaT. In fact in at least one hobby, all that's really sold in historicals is HaT. Strange, eh? :-)

so that means Allen is a great painter …… LOL

If by some wave of a wizards wand all new gamers and especially junior gamers could paint as Allen would like – great .

However , this sort of painting snobbery prevents the hobby from growing and kills off wargames clubs .

Allen please post some pictures of your painted figures please and inspire us all!

And Bx – I know we have had comments on this matter before, so I will leave those, but can I just say that as a HaT fan, I also appreciate that they do some bad figures and sets, and some ETS paint jobs are "interesting". But if people are enjoying themselves at no cost/harm to me then I am happy to let them be. I think I just get touchy when people get snooty on a public forum, taking cheap shots at others' efforts. In some ways, I enjoy the 1/72 scene more than "proper wargaming" as it does let people of all levels join in. What is starnge is that HaT attract a lot more anger than, say Strelets – whereas in my opinion most Strelets production is not to my taste. But it is a big world.

I was thinking of you when I said 'HaT fans love it', that was meant to mean "whilst I don't really understand it they do seem to be giving the people who buy their stuff what they want" :).

I think that the comments about the quality of the paint jobs is not snobbery aimed at the individuals, I would happily agree to labeling my own efforts as 'crap', but more collectively about HaT's use of them to promote their own products.

I agree with you about the relative quality of HaT and Strelets. Maybe HaT get more criticism because people do consider buying them whilst they don't with Strelets so they are not really worth commenting on.

"aecurtis--you are an elitist snob"

Yep. I'll proudly wear that tag!

"Allen please post some pictures of your painted figures please and inspire us all!"

Occasionally, I have posted links to my blog. But then, I don't hold out *my* work as an example of other than basic painting. I don't think it's inspirational.

Sites like the Lead Adventure Forum, or Steve Dean's, provide great inspiration. Seeing what people post there makes me want to go over to the painting table and pick up a brush.

Is TMP to be the "ho-hum" standard in comparison? I hope not. And if that's elitism and snobbery, great.

Allen

Well, there haven't been any posts from Armand since this thread (that I can see) so it looks like Allen's wish came true.

Pistol Duel! To anyone here jeering at those of us at Hat: Go sc*ew yourself.

I don't wish to be Dawghoused, but only to defend my deeply offended friends. Report me if you like; but let me prove my point:

I am on the Hat Industrie forum, and have many friends who contribute there. Not everyone can practice painting all day you know, and some of us simply weren't born artists.
At least Hat Industrie has pictures, unlike Old Glory, who's website sucks.

If you support our work on HaT, thanks. If you don't; just shut your hole. You're talking through your a*se

If you support our work on HaT, thanks. If you don't; just shut your hole. You're talking through your a*se

See this is where I have to disagree with you and say something.

While I understand what Allen is saying I don't personally agree. I'm in awe of everyone's painted figures because they are painted and I have so many that are bare.

I also believe Allen has every right to ask for better quality to inspire the rest of us.

I've found for myself that painting to a 5-7 for the rank and file is fine and to a 7-8 or so for command and specials is great also.

Regardless Allen has a right to voice his opinion, as do you, except when you call for folks to

just shut your hole

. Our best chance for continued success in every endeavour is open communication.

Also for the record I won't be pushing the splat on you. I'm sure someone will, but I won't as I just don't do that.

regards
Donald~
surprisingly more tolerant after a great annual physical. (perhaps it's because the new family doctor has very small hands?)

Also 4 posts to the same site with different URLs in a row is a bit inefficient; perhaps a single post with 4 links wouldn't have been a red strobe light to Allen

Bx – that made me snort :-) poor old Strelets….

Allen – glad to see a response. Still think you're wrong, but always happy to discuss

Butt hole boy – probably not necessary to go that far in defence of HaT products. Save that for Head for the Hills Hank at Strelets forum

Maybe I am alone in this, but pictures of poorly painted miniatures tend to motivate me. I don't necessarily enjoy looking at them, but just like eating fiber and doing push-ups, they serve an important function. If I look at someone else's poorly painted plastic (or metal) and realize 1) just how awful it is, and 2) that it resembles my own brushwork, that often provides me just as much motivation as pics of high-quality brushwork. But then I am generally a really weird person anyway.

That being said, I don't wish to see anyone ashamed of his work. I know that my own painting style has definitely gone through awkward growth periods in which what looked great to me then would make me quietly retch in the corner now. If I hadn't felt some pride in all those unshaded faces and highlight-free torsos, though, I probably would not have stuck with the hobby long enough to see my style improve.

To my mind, then, mediocre painters shouldn't post (or be forced to post) less-the great painters simply need to do MORE!

I think our first order of business is to secure a federal grant for DeanMoto so that he can quit his day job and simply never leave his painting table. Every few days, TMP support teams could toss packages filled with figures, paints, and food through his windows.

Maybe I'm a little strange. I actually like Strelets. I have been an AVID plastics, painter and player since the late 60's. I love em! However, Guynemer you don't speak for me or plastics fan in general. I love HAT. I have about a 1000 sets of plastics here. But the reality is that some of the fan supplied pics to ETS are pretty poor. I wouldn't say a lot. But boy, I scratch my head and just figure it's a young kid with nobody showing them anything or perhaps someone in a country which has little or zero support for the Hobby.

Calling names and telling folks to shut it are likely to result in dawghouse and for your views to be discounted. You aren't doing Plastic's fans any favors.

Thanks,

John

I know. It's probable I will be Dawghoused soon. Damn me for being a teenager! :(

Still, I don't think it's right to grumble about other people's painting, that's all. I mean, not accepting contributions because you don't like them is just mean.

If people really only like well-painted models, they should just read stuff like White Dwarf.

Sorry for my language, I was pretty angry when I wrote the previous post. I guess this is my last post before the Dawghouse.

Wait wait. He he he. 'My paint jobs suck too, but that's not the point…'

Too much! In serious danger of wetting self laughing!

Obviously a large wading pool is too small, we'll need a full up swimming pool. Wonder how much it costs to fill one with minwax?

My Painting was really poor. Then Duke S. came in to the Tin Soldier and was talking about Stain painting. I painted that way for many years.

I am glad to see no-one has pushed the button on the kid yet.

Pat

"aecurtis--you are an elitist snob"

"Yep. I'll proudly wear that tag!"

Why? It was meant in the derogatory sense, i.e. as something that is inherently bad. I don't hold that ETS is the pinnacle of painting and wargaming achievement, neither do I particularly like some of the "conversions" and other questionable items on the site. Having said that, Lead Adventurers Forum and Steve Dean's forum have some nice eye candy, but for the most part its one figure, one tank and so on that someone has spent an eternity painting with 60 layers of Foundry paints. I'm a wargamer, I want units and armies, not individual works of art. If I spent the amount of time some of the "pros" spend painting their figures I'd have a shoe box full of nice soldiers and not a garage full. There's also inherent snobbery about plastics that seems to permeate many of Mr Curtis' posts. I like plastic and metal soldiers. Out of choice, I'd rather paint metal soldiers, not sure why, maybe my paint style is better suited to them. Despite that I have at least 3,000 plastic soldiers, no 28mm ones yet, but I aim to buy and paint some.
Its not even that metals are inherently better in some way, neither anatomically or style-wise. If anything, they are probably more like human beings that many of the metal figures. Be honest, there are some pretty grotesque looking metal figures out there. Who can forget the truly appalling Warrior Miniatures "Star Wars" figures with Mark Lukewarm and other monstrosities. I don't like many of the 28mm WW2 figures (Bolt Action excepted), they are simply grotesque no matter how well painted they are. Metal figures can be ape-armed, squat legged, neck-less, armed with over-sized weapons, hideous facial features, the list goes on.
I suggest that you edit your preferences on this site Mr Curtis and filter out any news or message board links that mean you are likely to encounter what is probably the most vibrant and progressive part of the hobby since the Perry Twins realised that scalpels are not just for dissecting frogs in the science room. Plastics, whether 28mm multipart hard plastics, or softer 20mm ones that are on ETS and other sites are pushing boundaries, enabling access to the hobby, enthusing thousands of new gamers and painters. What's more they are infinitely more available than some obscure range of C18th pseudo-war figures that are drop cast by some Geek in his shed.

'Why? It was meant in the derogatory sense, i.e. as something that is inherently bad.'

Because one of Allen's favorite kicks is to act like a nob and get you judge him so that he can feel justified in judging you. Best just to point and snicker old boy.

I thought the pics were fine. Sure some of the paint jobs weren't great, but who cares.

Though being on a manufacturers website, and thus having some "promotional" value, these aren't product pictures. These are pics by hobbyists and listed as such.

It's kind of nice that HaT is letting some average blokes get thier stuff on a company website.

-If you don't like it, then don't look.
-If it makes you angry, don't buy.
-If you're feeling really indignant. Start thread about it on TMP.

While we all should be free to utter our opinion on other people´s paintwork, I don´t think anything useful is accomplished with just savaging it or making random remarks on the general painting quality for some scales in relation to others.

As someone who likes to be inspired, you could instead aspire to inspire rather than to discourage.

This is quite a bit harder, true, but more of a challenge. Don´t you think so, Allen?

The Hat and another plastic forum and another more mainstream miniatures forum I go to have picked up this thread.

While several posts make mention of the overwhelmingly positive nature of many of the posts here, you can bet the OP comes into some criticism.

Seriously Allen when you make a mistake, apologise.

Not in his nature. He's not wrong, you're just not smart enough to see how right he is.

If I were part of Hat Staff I really had to thank Mr. Curtis because this was the best propaganda that Hat Company would have in TMP!.

Not only Hat people had close ranks against the free agression, even that, I'm sure that many of the people who had read this thread could be interested on their products.

So, if there would be a medall for increased Hat propaganda, Mr. Curtis deserve it as the heroe of the moment.

Amicalement
Armand

At least he seems to have taken to his heels now.

Maybe he has stifled us all?

@Sane Max

Thanks, I'm relieved that I haven't been stifled either. Yet, I feel guilty and ashamed at the er…Colourful vocabulary I used. I'm amazed aecurtis hasn't replied!

@En Avant

Nice to see you join the fray in the defence of HaT, Armand!
You defended HaT much better than I did.
See you on the HaT forum!

If you want to see examples of HaT that you might like, here is a great link:
hat.com/Othr7/Groot05P.html

Surely it's not big or clever to just aimlessly criticise others painting!
Aimless because just saying something is cr*p is a bit pointless and pretty hurtful to those who have produced what one might see as cr*p.
Constructively helping someone improve their painting, when they appear to want help (Their opinion not yours)is a good thing trying to make yourself seem superior by snide comments is not.
Clearly not everyone springs from the womb with the ability to produce Dallimore standard painting and it's up to those people to practice and research to improve their technique if they want. Those who are happy with the level they've reached, even if it's not 'golden demon' standard should be commended for getting some paint on their figures rather than leaving them as a pile of 'lead' in the cupboard or drawer. To the beginner seeing painted figures which actually look ok paraded as awful or so last century is both disheartening and hurtful especially when those views are given by someone not willing to let others see their own efforts.
We should stop being painting snobs and applaud anyones efforts…the only cry really should be 'Painted Good….unpainted bad!'

Thanks Mr. Guynemer for your kindly words and congratulations too to mr.BaronDrum for his thread.

The REAL problem with sites of little soldiers it that some people had forget why they began to visit them.

I'm sure that all of us made our first step to know what other people of the world had done with their little soldiers and then maybe to compare which our owns.

But the thing that we SURE were searching was FUN… and contact with other guys of our planet who like/loves the same hobbie.
Then… we search to lern more.

Some, on that long path had forget that hobbies sites are not galleries of expensive paintings like Rembrand.
Guys… we are speaking about little "toys"!.

And what would be the most interesting thing to do that share them with people which could understand why guys older than 50 still play/paint/collect little "toys"?.

So… be gently would be (INMO)the Article nb. 1º to a hipotetic Constitution of our Hobbie.

Best Regards
Armand

The REAL problem is not so much about people posting pictures of their crap figures on HaT, its about OTHER PEOPLE posting links on TMP inviting TMP members to go look and make comment on the crap and then moaning when we do say they are crap.

"Surely it's not big or clever to just aimlessly criticise others painting!"
What IS aimless is saying something is great when its crap.

Supposing hypothetical errors of others to hide your own rudeness won´t cut it either. No one here said all the paintwork on ETS is great. It isn´t.

The point was that simply calling someone´s work bad in derogatory terms doesn´t contribute anything to anything. That it is easy and you and mr Curtis should try a bit harder.

I do hope this summary helps clarify things and will lead to ending this thread.

"The point was that simply calling someone´s work bad in derogatory terms doesn´t contribute anything to anything"
It contributes more than saying someones work is good when it isn't, at least people get a clear understanding of what is good and bad.

Seeing as the original painters of these works are NOT the ones posting here on TMP the criticism, sadly, doesn't impact them but it does help to make sure that other TMP member don't get confused by people who misguidedly applaud this work.

"I do hope this summary helps clarify things and will lead to ending this thread."
It always amuses me when someone believes their own statement should prevent any other from making further comment.

Well, your idea of constructive feedback looks bad.

Do you always need the last word ?

How 'bout some links to your no doubt beautiful minis so we can compare sweetie?

Do you?

@ Bravox
"It always amuses me when someone believes their own statement"

Yes, it amuses me too. So you believe this?

"Seeing as the original painters of these works are NOT the ones posting here on TMP the criticism, sadly, doesn't impact"

See, this is amusing. There is at least one posting and as this thread is linked at HAT, the painters in question are reading the "criticism" and responding there.

Sorry? What was your point again?

BravoX, you really shouldn´t let the last-word thing get compulsive you know. You´ll never get rid of it. Trust me I know

Anyone who wants to see my paintwork can Google me. I use a Flickr photo page.

Ah, but I'm not the one carping about quality honeybuns. I think it does people good to be able to show off their stuff, regardless of quality. If I were to say something it would be designed to aid them in their painting, not just whine about it.

to much time on your hands MR aecurtis? I Like my 1/72 scale figs but meh I also try not to sit in Judgment, even Picasso started somewhere.

Ive looked at the figures on allen's blog and they are OK.

I certainly would not sneer at them.

OI CURTIS…."NO"

Next time you see someone overweight in the street, why don't you just tell them they are fat, instead of going to the relevant forum and slagging them off in front of all your "mates" TO MAKE YOU LOOK BIG AND HARD.

Otherwise keep your insignificant opinions to yourself and leave the rest of the world to get on with their lives unmolested by your drivel.

@ Bravox
"It always amuses me when someone believes their own statement"

Yes, it amuses me too. So you believe this?

You mean prevent other from commenting? Good lord no, I believe that anyone should voice there opinion, as long as they keep it within the rules of this site.
Unlike Goldstar, gunmeyer et al I don't run round telling people to shut up.

"Next time you see someone overweight in the street, why don't you just tell them they are fat, instead of going to the relevant forum and slagging them off in front of all your "mates"
But he never does that does he.

What happens is some fat guy takes a pic of himself and posts it in his gym, because his gym likes that.

Fine, who cares…

But then someone in that gym takes that pic goes over to another gym and post the pic on their wall and then shouts out 'hey look at this really slim guy'.

Some of us wander over and say .. this guy ain't slim mate.

If you don't want your pic commented on don't post them on TMP, if you do post here expect to get told for real where you stand, simple isn't it.

Come on, just a few more posts and we can get to three pages. Not often we see a three pager on the plastics pages

Marc is right, lets see how long we can keep this argument going!

@BravoX

I don't tell people to shut up for complaining about painting skills, I tell them to shut up for mocking them.If people want to voice an opinion, fine, but some of the guys here are being plain nasty.

"instead of going to the relevant forum and slagging them off in front of all your "mates" TO MAKE YOU LOOK BIG AND HARD."

What forum is that, Penthouse Forum?

I always assumed that part of the purpose of HaT's ETS feature is to encourage kids in the hobby by publishing their work – the youngest I remember seeing was six years old. Sneering at them is like viewing a primary school's art room and grumbling that the work is immature, and not as good as Vermeer…

I think it would be ridiculous if this one went to three pages. I mean, what ARE we talking about?

Oh cr*p