"Fate of Commonwealth Graves in Occupied Europe" Topic

During the German occupation of France in WW II, does anyone know what happened to the European cemetaries containing the Allied fallen of World War One? I've read that one monument – that of an Anzac bayoneting a fallen German eagle was melted down by the Germans for being offensive. Did the Germans permit their maintenance while fighting the descendants of those who lay buried in Flanders fields?

I think so…They certainly weren't vandalised ….maybe not maintained to as high a standard as today but monuments such as the Menin Gate weren't desecrated

In general, they were not touched (there was a little battle damage in the odd place, I believe, but nothing intneitonal). Interesting, given the pretty harsh manner in which the French treated the German cemeteries on French soil after 1918 – concentration into several large sites etc. I have often wondered what happened to the headstones of Jewish soldiers in CWG cemeteries, however.

I've never heard about the momument being melted down. The only site destroyed was the rail car and monument where the German surrender took place.

From the sites I visited in France (Verdun, Somme, Vimy Ridge) the personal there stated that the Germans were very respectful of Allied war dead and monuments from the First World War.

I saw many headstones of Jewish French war dead that were not touched. The French graves are the only ones to use a Star of David as a marker. Each country buries their war dead differently.

One thing I did notice was in the French W.W. I cemeteries was that Christian, Jew and Muslim were all buried in the same sites (a Cross, Star or Cresent marking the graves).

They all said the same thing: Died For France.

There were plenty of British and German Jewish graves in France that survived WWII. I'm not sure why Oddball believes that they are not clearly marked – CWGC headstones are clearly marked with the appropriate religious symbol and WW1 German graves similarly have a Star of David instead of a cross.

The battle damage to the Menin Gate at Ieper was caused by a Cromwell of the Polish 10th Mounted Rifles firing a machine gun at German troops fleeing north out of the city.

I cannot say for American graves left from WWI (I never visited any such sites while I lived in France), but all WWII graves have both Stars of David and Crosses intermingled as they are laid out. All the grave sites I saw, for all wars, were taken care of and respected by everyone visiting, as well as the local people.

The Nazi were villains, but even villains can have a soft spot oddly. Hitler killed millions, but loved dogs. Go figure.

Dan

The 2nd Australian Division memorial at Mont St. Quentin went missing during the German occupation.
link

It was replaced by "Big Digger" after the war. The link provides the story. That is the only monument that went missing that I am aware of.

Happy early ANZAC Day

Guy

Some memorials after WW2 were found to contain bullet damage, however seeing that bullets carry on after missing their target and 1000s of rounds were flying about, some damage was to be expected.

I beleive Hitler visited some WW1 Cemetarys on his tour, and stated they were to be maintained.I think WW1 held as much emotional impact to the Germans as it did the Allies.

Certainly ive not heard of any deliberate damage by the Nazis, and they held tours of the area during the occupation.

Not in France or a grave, but in Belgium outside Ypres, the monument to the first use of poison gas (by the Germans) was destroyed during the occupation as offensive. The one (The Cross of Reconciliation) that stands there now is a post WW2 rebuild.

Also the Vimy Memorial was used as a OP by the Brits in WW2 and was also damaged. I think there was another monumnet (an Australian one) that was similarly used, but the name escapes me.

And yes the British, French and German graveyards are littered with graves of all religious demoninations.

The American memorial at St Nazaire was erected in 1926, to mark the port where the first members of the AEF landed in France in WW1. The memorial was destroyed by the Nazis in 1941, I believe the day after the declaration of war on the USA. It was restored in 1989, with subscribed funds from French and American sources.

All the best,

John.

Hitler issued an order expressly forbidding German personnel from damaging WW1 graves and monuments. To violate this was to be punished by court marshal, kicked out of the military, and a possible custodial sentence.

I will search for the book I read this in and give you the exact quote, when I get a chance.

Everyone I have ever talked to in Europe says the Germans were pretty good about WW1 graves. However the American mounment at Brest was (according to the Germans) destroyed in an allied air raid."

Which is funny as one brave Frenchman took a photo of the pillar falling over, which was proof the Germans detonated a charge at the base to knock it down…

I really do not know, but I suspect that any Russian graveyard (in Russia) was just ignored. But whent he Russians moved back Germans graveyards were plowed under.

The WW2 Allied Graveyard in Murmansk (for sailors) ended up being the site of an apartment building with no one even telling the Allies after the war… An Allied commision went there to recover the bodies and… there was a large building where the cemetary had been.

One of John Keegan's books has a piece on the Great War graves and cemetaries, and how the Germans permitted them to be maintained during the occupation.
Some German officers visited them and assured the British and American custodians that they could carry on.

R Mark Davies,

I didn't mean to imply that the graves of German and Commonwealth troops of Jewish faith were not marked with a Star, but that the Star of David to mark the grave was not the main symbol.

The Commonwealth graves I saw were all of the same type, a tall rounded headstone, with regt. badge, name rank, date, ect. engraved, if known. A Cross or Star would be added at the top of the stone, but the stone was not in the shape of a Star of David.

I don't remember seeing any German graves with a Star of David marker, but it could just be that it was over 10 years ago I was there and don't remember. I'll have to review the old home movies.

US graves are also marked with a Cross or Star, but I did not visit any W.W. I sites, only W.W. II sites, so I didn't comment on the US graves.

CWG stones have the appropriate religious symbol carved on the face, not on top of the stone – the Star of David is in the same place that the cross (or crescent) would otherwise appear.

I have certainly seen German grave markers with Stars of David in France and Belgium. I recall reading somewhere (can't remember where) that despite the Holocaust and anti-Semitic legislation in occupied countries etc, German Jewish soldiers' graves were ordered to be left alone. In this tone, I seem to recall that German Jewish war veterans (i.e., veterans of 1914-18) were exempted from many of the official anti-Jewish sanctions after 1933, at least for a time. The gallant digger bayoneting the prostrate Hunnish eagle (a fine monument, in my view, and one that should have been recreated) was indeed removed by the Germans, and replaced by a later Australian government with a sculpture that in my view leaves a good deal to be desired.

Well, I'd say score 1 to the Germans for good taste on that one.

R Mark Davies

Your comments on the Menin Gate are not quite correct. The damage to it was caused by 20mm fire and the REs exploding the moat bridge in May 1940. One officer was awarded an MC for this action, and the Gate is mentioned in his citation.

WW1 cemeteries were mildly damaged in 1940 including several cemeteries around Ypres, Indian Memorial at Neuve-Chapelle & the Villers-Bretonneux Memorial. Numerous sites around Soissons & in the Ardennes were also damaged in 1940, including places like Laffaux. Vimy was not damaged, as stated.

The Australian Memorial at Mt St Quentin was actually blown up, as was the Gas Attack memorial at Steenstraat in Belgium. The Germans felt both were anti-German.

Hitler loved his dog so much he fed it cyanide.

Ubique – fair enough, but that's what it says on a plaque in Ieper.