Help support TMP


"Samurai, Ashigaru and Sashimono" Topic


19 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Medieval Discussion Message Board

Back to the Classical Asian Warfare Message Board


Areas of Interest

Ancients
Medieval
Renaissance

3,326 hits since 22 Apr 2010
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Sir Samuel Vimes22 Apr 2010 3:26 p.m. PST

I am just starting some Sengoku Jidai forces(Takeda and Uesugi)and am wondering how common Sashimono would be. They do look fantastic, but I am using Old Glory figures and these have no Sashimono, nor any attachment points for them on the models. It would be possible to figure out a way to mount them on the figures and one can buy Sashimono from Perry and Dixon, or make them from bent wire and paper but, before I go down that road, I'd like to know if who all should have Sashimono.

So…

Samurai foot Y/N

Mounted Samurai Y/N

Yari Ashigaru Y/N

Teppo Ashigaru Y/N

Thanks for your help with this.

Connard Sage22 Apr 2010 3:33 p.m. PST

Any or all (in the spirit of the WRG lists)

RelliK22 Apr 2010 3:33 p.m. PST
Sir Samuel Vimes22 Apr 2010 4:24 p.m. PST

Yes, the Kingsford figures are very nice.

I am getting a sense that, prior to the large armies of the Edo period, there is not as much uniformity to armies. That said, will it look "off" to just use banner men with the Teppo and Yari Ashigaru and reserve the Sashimono for Samurai units?

Having everyone sporting a back banner looks great,in television, film, or public festival displays but, I don't know if I should use that as my "reality model" for this project. I reckon I should just get the Ashigaru painted and worry about retro fitting Sashimono down the road.

tigrifsgt22 Apr 2010 4:30 p.m. PST

Sir Sam: I'll try to help. All of the above could be wearing sashimonos. They might all be of the same color and logo. But in the case of some of the warlords, generals, daimyo they all might carry the same logo in a different color by type of unit. Or, a special unit might carry the same colors reversed on theirs. Hope I was of some help. TIG

Hrothgar Berserk22 Apr 2010 5:02 p.m. PST

In the case of ashigaru, they could wear them or not depending on the whim of their lords. Look at the near contemporary paintings. Some entire units wear them, and others go without. Also, not all ashigaru sashimono were the single rectangular flag style. Some are recorded as multiple-usually 3-small flags. Designs vary also and not all sported the mon. Some might even be one solid color or have a contrasting band, etc.

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2010 6:06 p.m. PST

All except for the highest leaders, for whom it was a personal choice to wear or not wear one.

None for any archers.

tigrifsgt22 Apr 2010 6:13 p.m. PST

You may want to rethink the use of Old Glory miniatures. They are by far the least expensive, but most people use them as fillers for large armies. And some one may bite my head off for me ever saying this, but using Perry would be a much better choice. My army is Genpei Wars and my favorite by far is TAG, I also have some Curteys and Battleline Samurai.

Sturmpioneer Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2010 7:05 p.m. PST

All the above comments are accurate though I do think archers would/could sport sashimono.

The Kingsford Miniatures range has a nice selection of historically accurate sashimono. We have small sashimono, large sashimono, fan shaped sashimono and twin sashimono. We're currently trying to get our horo made in resin so that it won't tip over your figures! Our horo will be larger and more accurate than other offerings.


David
kingsfordminiatures.org

tigrifsgt23 Apr 2010 5:50 a.m. PST

David: Really like the resin idea, some one should have thought of it sooner. But why just horo, I have the tip over problem with my mounted banner carriers. TIG

Dr Mathias Fezian23 Apr 2010 8:04 a.m. PST

Nothing I've read indicates any pattern regarding sashimono, just about anyone (including archers and handgunners) could wear them depending on the daimyo. They seem to get more common toward the end of the period.

I personally wouldn't put them on ashigaru, mainly to save some time.

pissant23 Apr 2010 9:04 a.m. PST

Oh my!

setsuko23 Apr 2010 11:24 a.m. PST

Another advantage of not putting sashimono on your troops, especially for 28mm, is that they are easier to transport. Sashimono are made for twisting or breaking if you as much as look at them.

Units with long spears and sashimono are a complete disaster when it comes to carry them around.

RelliK23 Apr 2010 12:50 p.m. PST

How about casting the pole to the soldier in one piece and designing sticker sashimonos that wrap around the pole? Much lighter and flexable. Or sculpt a sashimono 3 up and take it to a mold guy and get them done in plastics. Resin can be very brittle or soft and takes more time to cast (in all the various casting processes). Did I mention it can be very messy.

Just a thought.

Sir Samuel Vimes23 Apr 2010 1:46 p.m. PST

Thanks everyone.

While other lines are superior in many ways, I am trying to make the most of my Old Glory army membership and this project is on a limited budget. I wanted to put together an interesting "matched pair" for Basic Impetus and, with seven infantry to a base, each of the 30 figure bags gives me 4 units of troops with 2 figures to spare.

Since much of my available source material indicates a lack of a hard and fast rule in this issue, I am going to leave the banners off the missile troops and save them for use with the nagae yari ashigaru and some of the samurai. Then again, I may be even more frugal with them, since they are a project within a project. Who knows; perhaps the extra long and pointy yari will protect the sashimono from wear and tear (at the expense of a few puncture wounds).

My wife's beading materials look like they will yield some fine bits for sashimono fabrication. Craft store to the rescue. I have a wire, bead, and tape plan which may do the trick.

Again, thank you all for the feedback and information.

sergeis23 Apr 2010 2:46 p.m. PST

All my Sengoku period Japanese sport sashimono- except archers. I made mine from white metal and sank it if black rubber mold. They have 2 pins on the back by which means they are glued to figure- mark, pre drill holes, glue in. None of them ever fell of or bent. I have usual single banner for most, teppo with 3 pole banners, some samurai with fan shapes, etc. For sashimono- IMHO- Anegava screen is one of the best sources. If you are doing Takeda vs Uesugi- there are some books with their sashimono- also unit armor and lacing were quite regimented…

Jezz Todd28 Apr 2010 9:16 a.m. PST

Enjoyed this post as I am starting on exactly the same project, also using Takeda and Uesugi forces, but using the 1/72 scale plastics from Zveda. I will be giving these a very basic painting so therefore am counting on the sashimono to make the units stand out.

Interested to hear the detail about no sahimono for archer units, does this apply to shot as well?

Also when using Impetus rules and basing a shot unit am interested in any recomendations for basing. Should I use about eight figures spread out in two lines, rather than a more Western style countermarch style in 3 lines?

Would the shot and archers be based as skirmish units as well as larger formal missile units? I know smaller numbers of shot troops were available and wonder would different sub-generals group their shot together to allow larger units or keep them as smaller skirmish units?

Regards Jez

sergeis29 Apr 2010 3:19 p.m. PST

Shot had sashimono- at least they are shown with such in most of the artwork. Since it is removable it is conceivable that sashimono was removed when in ambush- Shimazu were always fond of ones… Some teppo sashimono were quite elaborate- Taira?
Why archers had no sashimono? Apparently they interfered with shooting a bow, also by the time sashimono were adopted bow was going out of use…
NOT sure on SMALL numbers of teppo- as an example Ikko-Ikki had quite a few and they were a menace for Oda- taught him a couple of lessons… I'd advice going to Turnbull books or even asking him directly on line- very much an approachable guy! He posts some numbers on several OOBs and you can figure out usual percentage of teppo in the armies.

War In 15MM21 Oct 2010 8:22 p.m. PST

The majority of my Samurai forces are by Two Dragons. They make excellent sashimono in terms for both appearance and strength. They are sold in separate packs of 20 sashimono per pack. In addition to the Two Dragons' figures, my collection also includes Old Glory, Peter Pig, and a few Minifig. Because I like the Two Dragons' sashimono so much, I attached them to the Old Glory, Peter Pig, and Minifig as well. In the case of the Peter Pig, I had to remove the existing sashimono and then make an appropriate hole in the back of the figure using a hobby knife to insert the Two Dragons' sashimono. I think that worked out very well. You can see for yourself by checking them out at my vanity website warin15mm.com. Just click on the Samurai Gallery. Richard

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.