"Victrix French Old Guard" Topic

Like many on here I was desperate to get my hands on the Victrix Old guard set. Having now completed my set I'm happy to say they did not disappoint!

link

On the plus side;
60 Guardsmen in the box for 20gbp, of the 60 there is enough 'Attack March' pose to complete a decent group (my Battalion has 42 figures – which was padded with 3 advancing in the front rank).
There are plenty of spares – I'm going to use mine as Great coated Voltigers.

Only down side is the muskets don't seam as robust as the Perry French as I've had to fix two before getting into their first battle!
In fairness this might be more to do with my handling than the fragility of the plastic.

Very nice indeed
Well done

Oooh. Very nice. Great work on those. I like the bared teeth on one of the officers; also giving some of them a grizzled look. About the bayonets – some folks say they drop some superglue on the joint and this seems to strengthen them. I plan to do that with my next box of Victrix to see if it really helps or not. Dean

Excellent! I'm inspired to start mine. Just gotta get a whole pile of AB Miniatures knocked over first,..
Cheers
trailape.blogspot.com

now the question did the 3rd(or 2nd depending on the moment) wear grey or blue greatcoats..I am going for grey from the prior dutch service

I Might try the superglue its the only slight reservation i have about the figures as other than that they are excellent.

Kipper,
That is great painting ! Thanks for the link !
:-)

===========================

Cardinal,

Suprising. It looks like the Dutch grenadiers received blue greatcoats :
link
link
link

Suprising. But I can't find any images of them with gray. So, I guess it is blue.

These are extremely elite troops. They can defeat any number of enemies, anytime – unless betrayed by some …. bad man. That they all were killed in Russia had nothing to do with the Russians – it was just an accident or something like that. Remember – Napoléon, the greatest general and statesman of all time, took them into His Own GUARD! What more can be said ?
The only thing that could make them more elite is if they were French.

If you want to learn more about how amazing and super elite the French Guard was (even the Dutch, too), I recommend "Swords Around a Throne", by Colonel John Elting.

This book is an invaluable and infallible resource for all information, on all topics, and it is all complete and perfectly true. For example, we learn on page 197 that the Dutch Guard "lacked the toughness of their French comrades", but still "served faithfully" [until they were all killed, of course – then they were dead, and thus were serving somewhat less].

But it was the "little Dutchmen" of the "Pupilles" or war-orphans "that really caught the French fancy" [huh ?]. Napoléon really liked the little fellas, so he sent them to die for him in the 7th Tirailleurs in 1813. Do you know what the little ingrates did? The few survivors mutinied in early 1814 ! Boy, I bet that mistake followed them all the years of their long lives!

Well, it is all on page 197 of "Swords ….", so it MUST be true!
Isn't that great ?

Chuvak

thanks chuvak..though those links could be interpreded as a blue, or blue grey blanket rolls rather than greatcoats..
and indeed it is a useful box, with two of them, and a bit of conversion I habve assembled a Dutch Grenadier and two Chasseaur a pied of the Guard and a legeree in greatcoat ..excellent..for Lasalle,, though yet to paint some. again great Work Kipper..

I think all the linked images show a rolled greatcoat. And yes – a blue-gray or unsaturated blue. It seems to be consistently shown that way – the same "Dutch blue"[?] as the musicians' habits. The French described it as "bleu-de-ceil". It was distinctive to the unit – so clearly enough lighter/grayer than French dark blue to see the difference. It was the color used in Holland service and it is confirmed as retained for Russia.
However, Alain Pigeard (Tradition No. 83, décembre 1993) says regular French dark blue capotes for the officers.

Here's a bunch of Netherlands images – to get an idea of what "blue" that is "supposed" to be :
link

None of these images are well-enough sourced for me to really feel that I know the answer to what the "Dutch blue" looked like. I am no expert on Dutch iconography, so I can't immediately tell which series I am looking at, how old it is, whether drawn from life or a later guess, etc.

Maybe someone else will have looked more closely at the question and give a better answer.

Chuey

Yep thats why I asked the question I don't think it has ever been answered.In 35 years I have never come across a description of a Dutch Guard grenadier's greatcoat..I suspect it was other than dark blue..

Great paint job Kipper!

The blue you're using is rather nice, and I like the basing as well. Spot on!

@Chuvak

[These are extremely elite troops. They can defeat any number of enemies, anytime – unless betrayed by some …. bad man. That they all were killed in Russia had nothing to do with the Russians – it was just an accident or something like that. Remember – Napoléon, the greatest general and statesman of all time, took them into His Own GUARD! What more can be said ?
The only thing that could make them more elite is if they were French.

If you want to learn more about how amazing and super elite the French Guard was (even the Dutch, too), I recommend "Swords Around a Throne", by Colonel John Elting.

This book is an invaluable and infallible resource for all information, on all topics, and it is all complete and perfectly true. For example, we learn on page 197 that the Dutch Guard "lacked the toughness of their French comrades", but still "served faithfully" [until they were all killed, of course – then they were dead, and thus were serving somewhat less].

But it was the "little Dutchmen" of the "Pupilles" or war-orphans "that really caught the French fancy" [huh ?]. Napoléon really liked the little fellas, so he sent them to die for him in the 7th Tirailleurs in 1813. Do you know what the little ingrates did? The few survivors mutinied in early 1814 ! Boy, I bet that mistake followed them all the years of their long lives!

Well, it is all on page 197 of "Swords ….", so it MUST be true!
Isn't that great ?]

Man, ENOUGH is ENOUGH!

Couldn't you just have complimented Kipper on a great paint job and been done with it rather than drag the silly pedantic (and thus extremely boring) arguments between yourself and 10th Marines into yet another thread? Why don't you pedants just leave those of us who want to paint, game, and have a good time alone?

Pachinko Parlor Royale

Good point.
Thanks.

But does it solve the Dutch grenadier coats? I'm sure Kipper is ready to do some of them..you need to remove fill/the Cap plate and cut off/file off the Eagle on the patch..I actually used a pyrograuve to engrave "out" the plate and to lively up the bearskins which are bit unfurry in parts and possibly the weakest bit of the whole set…Did the same thing to the plate and patch for tha chasseurs….when I stop having the busiest month in two years I will start an extremly pedantic and possibly erudite thread with links to pictures for those interested..

I look forward to the pics. I can't paint worth *****. So I really love to see the work of people who can.

Again, my apologies for hitting a "Discussion" thread with "History" board material (and attitude). I was just waking up in my time zone and should have had some coffee before trying to read. I thought I was still on the "HIstory" board and neglected the fact that I had surfed out of that "danger zone".

Chuey

"Again, my apologies for hitting a "Discussion" thread with "History" board material (and attitude)."

Although the material may be different, there should be no difference in attitude between the two boards, Chuvak. Sadly there often is.

I would hate to think I might miss that apt, albeit pungently delivered, critique of Swords… simply to spare the virgin ears of Pachinko Parlor Royale.

NSN,

The passage on the Dutch guard in "Swords …." reads like the libretto from a very bad opera. Re-read it sometime – word for word – it is pretty amusing.

"Cue the war-orphans …."
– Papa Votre Majesté, can we go attack the Russians now ?
– No children, Our Majesty has taken a "fancy" to you – you can all die next year.

Chuey

l'habillement resterait le même, hormis la suppression des brandebourgs

Isn't life grand? I learned French from the age of 7 until 18 and then did a bit more at university. I then used it on and off as a business and tourism language over the next 20 years.

In all that time, damn near 40 years, I never once came across the French word hormis.

From the context I can work out what it means, but I would have said à l'exception de.

When I was 14, I did a French exchange visit and the bloody actual genuine French similarly kept saying c'est pareil or c'est pas pareil. I had no idea what pareil meant. Once I got home and consulted a dictionary, I found it means "the same". For 7 years I had been bloody lied to, and told that the French for "the same" was le même.

So I learned a new word. Hitherto the only linguistic advantage afforded to me by wargaming was being able to use words like "dolman", "pelisse", and best of all "sabretaches" in games of Scrabble.

Nice work, Kipper…I'm just managing to NOT buy these, but my will-power is waning….You are not helping!

@Cardinal Hawkwood

Apparently the Dutch grenadiers, when still being troops of the Dutch Kingdom had light blue greatcoats.

Bucquoy is discussing this also in a series of plates.

Fallou states that they should have had identical greatcoats to the other French Imperial Guard – when being part of the French Imperial Guard.

However in Napoleon's Last Grande Armée – when discussing plate 89 –

"Here, Winkler's title "Dutch Guard" appears to have mistaken the Italian Royal Guard Velite Grenadiers for Dutch Grenadiers. Both wore light blue greatcoats …"

There the Imperial Guard had no blankets, the pictures from the links Chuvak dislpay greatcoats.

Patrice Courcelle published a work dedicated to the "Dutch" grenadiers which should be full of interesting information.

So – grey greatcoats for the "Dutch" grenadiers seem to be not that likley.

Very nice work, that gives an idea to me… merde!!!

Thanks for your feedback, not too sure about the Dutch guard . . . Dutch Militia are in progress, I'm using Perry / Victrix British plastics but i'll need to contact GMB for some flags.

Tonight I almost broke down and brought the three boxes of these guys at the local game store.

My usual scale is 15mm but 180 Old Guard for $40 USD per box was almost to good to pass up.

But for now I did pass them up.