"Modern Victorian Sci-Fi Spaceships/Airships" Topic

Apologies if this is not quite on topic, but it rather crosses genre lines…

I'm working on a line of "Post-Victorian Sci-Fi" Spaceships/airships. Basically, what happens 50-100 years after the Victorian Age of Ether ships and analytical engines… Some of the models can be seen at:

link

I'm looking for general feedback about the "look and feel" of the ships, plus any suggestions for painting and finishing. I've started a batch with a rather bland "Naval Gray" with some brown color scheme, but feel that it doesn't really look that great.

Any thoughts?

thanks,

arun

They look cool to me…

Are the 3D sculpted, or scratch build?

I think they look very good. Well done.

One point – I think the submarine sculpts is too modern for VSF, you may want to check out early subs, instead.

Tony
dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com

arodrig6,
I'm certainly impressed by the sculpting!
One thing I've wondered about VSF ships is why they don't have ventral armament, like the ball turret on a WWII bomber. It would seem to create a blind spot in their defenses, and make it difficult to use them in a ground attack role.
For colors, I'd assume that, like warships, they are simply too large to hide, so you'd go with something like dazzle camouflage, perhaps in shades of blue and stormy grey, to make it harder to determine their course and lead the target properly when you fire. Alternatively, using aircraft as your model, paint the upper surfaces in greenish brown and the lower surfaces in a pale skyish color.
Grelber

For that period I always think of warring nations and thus great big flags all over them boasting their pride at being, British, French, Prussian etc..

I also agree with dampfpanzerwagon that they do look a bit to modern for VSF, at least in my mind.

I think more brass and wood and steam..

Nice – the designs look like reasonable extrapolations of what might develop 50 years down the road from the Space 1889 setting or somesuch. Really good use of girderwork and open-frame designs – but you've always been good at those. Might as well exploit the strengths of the Shapeways printing process.

Have you tried printing any in Detail material, or are there wall thickness issues?

If they're the right scale, I'd buy them for Wessex games Astronef.

Anyone don't like the side bits can slice 'em off!

Excellent work, love the Cloud Farm attack.

This is Post-VSF. 50 years after Victoria would be roughly WW2.

I agree with Dampf: That 'Typhoon' lookalike doesn't jive with the rest of the fleet. so I'd look at the Japanese I-400 and American USS Nautilus SS167 for inspiration.

I think the missile-armed 'casemate' is a little too advanced, as well.

I love the flat-tops, although I'd add a secondary flight deck on the keel like in Last Exile.

=====

There's really a couple questions I have for you regarding paint schemes:

1) does radar or some other beyond-visual-range detection system exist?
2) are there high-threat 'torpedoes' or missiles?

Most of the dazzle camo schemes were intended to confuse the Mk1 eyeball as a defense against submarine-launched torpedoes, with a secondary effect against eye-guided gunnery. Once Radar came into use, dazzle schemes died out.

Thanks for all the feedback!

napthyme – the are 3D printed by Shapeways. I used the WSF material.

dampfpanzerwagon – The sub is a bit on the modern side. I just got an old copy of 'Jane's Submarines' which has some nice historical shots. I'll have to start getting some ideas from there. I was almost going to skip doing an 'air sub' as it seems like a rather odd idea, but I figured it could hide in the clouds or some such… :- )

Grelber – Good point about the ventral guns. One of the ships (

) does have a ventral turret, but it does not appear in the photo. I'll have to add some more in the next batch.

Most excellent designs

angelbarracks – I like the flag idea. Plus, it gives me an excuse to order some decal paper (my freehand painting is less than stellar…)

Battle Works Studios – Thanks. I'm glad you liked the open-frame girder look as well. I haven't tried these models in the White Detail material, but did try to design them using the white detail design rules (i.e. minimum 1mm wallthickness). So, they should print, but are not yet tested.

unitrecon – Glad you liked the render. :-) I've only recently started playing around with those. As for scale, I tried to model them off a 1:1800 scale using modern ships as the baseline. So, the largest models (Based off the US Wasp-Class amphibious assault ships) are about 14 cm long, the smaller models (scaled to the Soviet Osa Class) are about 2 cm long.

Ship Length (cm) Estimated Cost
LHD 13.7 $13.50/$15.70
Frigate 6.2 $2.85 USD / $4.50 USD
Corvette 3.9 $1.65 USD / $1.75 USD
Missile Boat 2.3 $0.25 USD / $0.43 USD

Small Missile Boat:
picture

Large LHD:
picture

They look 'sandy' and pitted. Why is that?

Take a look at Last Exile photos for inspiration.
link

Also, check here:
link

I would buy ships like the above in a second. I own Brigade aeronefs.

Lion in the Stars – Thanks for the suggestion (I-400 especially) I haven't really worked out a 'timeline' to determine exactly where there ships would be produced in a post-victorian world, and so I based the designs mainly on Post-WWII ships, on the theory that all the steampunk technology advances would lead to a somewhat faster overall technology trend. I think the missile-armed ship you mentioned was based off a concept design for the never-produced USN "Arsenal Ship", so it is clearly out of place.

I like the idea of a secondary flight deck. At some point I'd like to do a larger 'carrier' type vehicle. The current one is based of a somewhat smaller LHD (Wasp-class).

As for your questions, I don't have direct answers, mainly because I've just been noodling around with the designs and haven't developed a timeline or backstory. (Though your questions certainly make me want to…)

1) does radar or some other beyond-visual-range detection system exist?

I was assuming so. Some of the ships have radar dishes or antenna, and some even have AEGIS/SPY-type phased array panels, though if they were in space probably a passive detection system would be more appropriate.

2) are there high-threat 'torpedoes' or missiles?

Yes, since these ships are somewhat based on post-WWII designs, they tend to be missile or torp heavy. Many of the ships have vertical launch tubes (which didn't really come out in the photos)

Good point about the Dazzle paint schemes, though I'm still tempted by the 'it looks cool' factor… I suppose optical detection could still be used. One of the things I like about the VSF genre is the combination of advanced and primitive technology, so an alternate technological evolution could be that the effectiveness of ether-based technologies actually stunted investment in electronics such as radar or IR detectors…

Again, thanks for all the good feedback and thoughts. This certainly has gotten me thinking. If I had the extra cycles, developing a backstory for the Post-VSF world would be most rewarding…

Just out of curiosity, have you seen Majestic Twelve's Iron Stars? Actually, JUST post-Victorian, I think roughly up to WWI, the figs for the game are from Brigade Models, who also do a number of Aeronef ships.

While I'm not a MJ12 fanboy, I'll admit some interest in the Iron Stars game.

Ventral guns: Seem somewhat overrated in a atmosphere/planetary game. Anything approaching at lower levels actually increases the range of your guns, if given anything like 20th century, much better WWII, fire control.

Now in night, or hide-and-seek in the clouds, requiring snap shots, perhaps…

Doug

You might browse the comic series, Red Star, in particular the flying furnace 'dreadnaughts' might be of interest.

20 years ago or so I hand carved a 1889 ship from balsa. It was a larger scale- gun boat rather than cruiser- and a couple of inches long. I painted it all white, so it looked nice, and it had a huge rudder that reached from above the deck to below the keel- air being thinner than water- with a Union Jack painted on it

Zen Ghost – Thanks!

CPBelt – The sandy appearance is because of the material I used. At Shapeways, you have a choice of materials and I used the less expensive "White, Strong, and Flexible" material. You can also have them printed in 'White Detail' which gives a smoother surface, but costs more. I find the 'roughness' of the WSF is pretty minimal once painted, especially at arms length (i.e. on the gaming table). The bumps are in the tens of microns in size, so they are not too large. Also, they may be more apparent because I was using a single source of light at a steep angle.

I'm glad you are interested in buying. I should have them posted for sale at my shop ( shapeways.com/shops/objects ) soon.

Thanks for the links, there are some impressive color schemes in there!

arodrig6, those ships are great. I can't say what ship designs would look like 50-100 years after a VSF era game, but then who can. The "sub" model does look kind of modern, but whose to say that the design curve wouldn't have taken a different track and progressed to that design.

TheBeast – I have looked at Iron Stars, in fact, they were one of the things that got me interested in VSF. Good point about guns in an atmospheric setting. Do you know if Aeronef (or any other VSF games) have extensive rules for hiding in the clouds and such?

Patron Zero – I'll definitely check out the Red Star franchise. I've not heard of it before, but it looks like an interesting read. Have you had any experience with the RPG spin-off from Green Ronin?

Last Hussar – I like the "All-white with a big flag" look. It reminds me of the 'Great White Fleet'…

thanks all!

Do you know if Aeronef (or any other VSF games) have extensive rules for hiding in the clouds and such?

None do that I know of – if the concept's even mentioned, it's usually a scenario-specific rule or something simple like "above or below this altitude LoS is blocked." Kind of odd.

sean68333 – Thanks. Part of the reason I chose the more modern design was simplicity – I could just take a sphere and stretch it around to get what I wanted. I think some of the WWII-era subs might make for more interesting designs in the long run. Your thoughts?

Battle Works – Thanks for the info. Though I've always liked the art, I've never actually played aeronef.

Yet another-but-earlier set with more pretties: Catalyst Game Lab's Leviathans. I'd seen a demo at GenCon last summer; for some reason I got in my head 'Mongoose' and kept going to that site for updates. *blush*

arodrig6….."Patron Zero – I'll definitely check out the Red Star franchise. I've not heard of it before, but it looks like an interesting read. Have you had any experience with the RPG spin-off from Green Ronin"…..

Myself directly no, I'm more a fan of the comic series for the quality of the art and storylines, the mechanical designs are what drew me to Red Star initially.

TheBeast – Beautiful! I like the Leviathans a lot. Do you know if they are working on a line of minis, or just an RPG?

Patron – I just ordered 'Red Star, Vol. 1 – The Battle of Kar Dathras Gate' Some of the comments on Amazon were mentioning that it used some unique techniques for the artwork – sort of a combination of computer and hand-drawn. Is that the case?

arodrig6 – Don't I wish! Course, if I could find full models as opposed to waterline miniatures of pre-dreadnoughts, and just add some pipe/tanks and canards along the sides… ;->=

Last November they were talking about a boxed set with plastic figs 'Spring 2010', but wait-and-see.

link

I'll be looking around for piccies, but I think the demos from last summer's GenCon used lovely but flat cut-outs.

Still another Doug

Whoops, there's actually some work going on for miniatures.

In the designer's blog entry for last GenCon:
link

He speaks of work ongoing for figs:
picture

One Doug, of Legions

This might prove suitable inspiration for your 'subamrine' desgin – the K Class link

TheBeast – Thanks for those links! I like the smokestacks on the master. Do you have any idea what the scale is going to be?

Huw R Davies- Thanks for that link. There are some nice perspectives on the sub. I haven't heard of the K Class before, looks like it was an interesting concept.

"Thanks for those links! I like the smokestacks on the master. Do you have any idea what the scale is going to be?"

You've seen the piccies; your guess is undoubtedly BETTER than mine… ;->=

Doug, off his meds and can't be clever again

Holy Cow! Those things look GOOD!

Looks like I should have actually read the post… He says the battleship is 5 inches long. Pretty nice.

By the way, I just posted the naval (wet) ships which the post-VSF models are based on to link I've got some travel coming up, but hopefully will get around to posting the post-VSF ships for sale

Hello All,

Thanks again for all the feedback. I've posted the models for sale at link

thanks,

arun