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"Russian Generals." Topic


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3,321 hits since 30 Mar 2010
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Juaninka30 Mar 2010 4:01 p.m. PST

Hi!

Im trying to paint this two sets of russian generals from AB miniatures:

link

link

But Im having a lot of trouble trying to find references/plates for the uniforms and so.

From what Ive found, the "basics" would be: Green jacket, red facings and collar, and grey pants.

What about the sash? Ive seen it painted sometimes red and sometimes white… when should I use each color?

Also, Im trying to find out the colors for painting Bagration and Kutuzov.

Ive found many portraits of Kutuzov, but all of them show him wearing a uniform, and without "hat", not the long coat the miniature has.

Ive only found one photograph of a painted Kutuzov (28mm) and the coat was painted dark green.

Same problem for the Bagration miniature. I think its wearing a long coat, but couldnt find any reference…

Can someone tell me where to find some plates or at least photographs of these miniatures painted?

Thanks in advance!

jonspaintingservice30 Mar 2010 5:02 p.m. PST

Kutuzov.. White trousers, very dark green jacket with red collar and cuffs, however he has a lot of heavy gold embroidery on both the collar and cuffs and the red is only partialy visible. Red and gold striped sash. Black bicorn with white feathers. The picture i have has him riding a white horse with all black horse furniture.

I think bagration wore a similar uniform as the dark green coat with red collar and cuffs with heavy gold trim and white trousers were a standard uniform for their senior rank.


In colder weather they could have worn thicker green trousers and a shoulder cape along with a dark green peaked cap with a red band. The long coat would be dark green with green collar/cuffs but with a thin red band high up the cuff.

You should be able to find a number of paintings of them through google.

Personal logo timurilank Supporting Member of TMP30 Mar 2010 10:43 p.m. PST

The NYPL links are a handy source.

Russia 1807-1812:
link

Russia 1813:
link

link

Cheers,
Robert
18thcenturysojourn.blogspot.com

Deadmen tell lies30 Mar 2010 11:36 p.m. PST

Check this site out it might have what your looking for:

link

Regards
James

Juaninka31 Mar 2010 1:38 a.m. PST

Thanks a lot for all your answers, and all the links.

Ive looked at google, and, as jonspaintingservice sais, there are tones of pictures from them. The problem is that none of these pictures show the generals in long coat. All of them are portraits, which are really usefull for painting generals wearing "regular" uniform, but not for painting the AB miniatures :(… in the case of Kutuzov and Bagration they dont even wear the usual Bicorn, but two really "weird" caps :)

Thanks a lot for your help, and excuse my english!!

Juan.

Juaninka31 Mar 2010 1:49 a.m. PST

Hi again!

Ive browsed through the website General Brock said, and have found this photograph of Kutuzov:

picture

Hes wearing a grey Coat over the uniform, and the "strange" cap (sorry, its my first attemp at painting nappy miniatures, Im more a WWII or Ancients painter, so, forgive me if I dont use the right names!) is painted white with a red stripe…

Jonspainting service talked about a green coat, which seems to me nicer from the "color-effect" point of view…

Besides, Im not really sure about the Bagrations miniature uniform… is he supposed to be wearing a VERY long coat or some kind of strange, oriental looking pants, ala ottoman?

Thans again for answering!

Deadmen tell lies31 Mar 2010 4:49 a.m. PST

Here is some miniatures already painted of the Russian staff with Kutuzov in the middle cap on the drum.

picture

nvrsaynvr31 Mar 2010 12:03 p.m. PST

If the coat has tails, it's just the uniform coat. Officers got a full skirted frock coat in 1808, d.green with red collar and cuffs. Unlike the uniform coat, the collar and cuffs would be plain without the general's embroidery. The greatcoat would be gray with red collar. Breeches were white, but riding overalls gray with brass buttons. The sash was silver with thin orange and black threading. Kutuzov's "weird" hat is, of course, the standard fatigue cap, in this case white with red band representing the L.G. Horse.

Are you sure you are not mistaking Platov's cossack uniform for Bagration's?

Chuvak31 Mar 2010 9:37 p.m. PST

A reason that we may be having some trouble is that these miniatures were designed after early lithographs by Орловский Александр Осипович / Aleksandr Osipovich Orlovskiy (1777-1832). As lithogrpahs, they were in black/brown and white, you see. I link them below, and some "canonical" colorized versions of the same uniforms.

Kutuzov
That hat is a trooper's foarge cap from a the Life-Guard Horse regiment / Лейб-гвардии Конный полк.
picture
picture
picture
picture
picture

Platov
picture
picture
picture
picture
picture

Bagration
The image from the catalog is a little hard to see. Do you have a better photo of the miniature ?
The miniature appears to be wearing the (gray) cavalry overalls – to me rather doubtful. As for a hat, are you sure that is not his great head of hair? Bagration is canonically depicted in regulation dress uniform, but quite often without a hat.
picture
picture
picture
picture

Chuvak

Juaninka05 Apr 2010 1:31 p.m. PST

Hi!

Thanks a lot for all the help, and sorry for not answering before, but Ive been without internet access for some time.

nvrsaynvr, sorry but I dont know what do you mean by "tails", hope you can tell from the photos if it has or it does not…

Ive taken some photos of the miniatures, they are not of a very high quality…

Bagration:

picture

picture

Kutuzov:

picture

picture

Thanks!

nvrsaynvr05 Apr 2010 2:10 p.m. PST

First, that is Platov, Ataman of the Don Cossacks and NOT Bagaration. Platov would be wearing a blue uniform.

"Tails" are the "skirt" – the fabric below the waist as found on a tuxedo, in back usually with the edges "turned back" exposing the coat lining. Most Napoleonic coats had tails of longer or shorter length. If the skirt is full, i.e. encloses the legs when standing, then you have a frock coat or a greatcoat (or officer's coat in Fredrickian style). It's tricky for me to tell, but it looks like Kutuzov is wearing a uniform coat rather than a frock coat. In any case, the basic coloration is the same. The uniform coat just has extensive gold embroidery on the cuffs and collar, while the frock coat does not.

Chuvak05 Apr 2010 2:51 p.m. PST

It is an odd miniature. He has his decorations and even a sash, and the coat buttoned. But also his trooper's forage cap.

The cloth material in the scupt looks full in the parts just behind the legs. I would paint it as the frock coat and file off the decorations. That is the usual way Kutuzov is shown when depicted at battles.

Chuey

Juaninka06 Apr 2010 3:29 a.m. PST

nvrsaynvr, thanks a lot for pointing out my mistake! I assumed that, from the description in the AB miniatures site, they were named from left to right… as a matter of fact, thats how they name Beresford, Picton and Wellington (you cant be wrong identifying Picton and Wellington :) )

Ill be using them for a Board-Wargame, so I think Ill paint Kutuzov dark green with white-red band cap… he definitively does not have tails in the cloak (thanks a lot, mr nvrsaynvr for the explanation!) it looks more like a modern riding-coat than a napoleonic-uniform one!

As for Platov, do you think hes wearing a long coat? he seems to have some oriental-looking pants, very loose and they almost cover the boots… they go beyond the stirrups.

The "jacket" seems very short, the low part covered by the sash. It should be painted blue from what nvrsaynvr said. What about the pants?

And just two more questions. Ive seen the sash painted red or white in the russian generals and officers, and the chest-band is sometimes red and sometimes blue… when should I paint each color?

Thanks in advance, Ill post some photos as the paintjob progresses!

nvrsaynvr06 Apr 2010 11:37 a.m. PST

Juaninka, I think it may be time for you to do a little bit more reading and research. Chuvak has already provided several pictures of Platov's uniform and I described the Russian officer's sash in this thread already.

The "chest-band"s are military decoration ribbons. L.blue is the St. Andrew Order and red is the Alexander Nevski Order.

Marc the plastics fan07 Apr 2010 5:14 a.m. PST

Good luck – and welcome to the wonderful world of Naps on TMP

Juaninka17 Jun 2010 3:40 p.m. PST

Hi!

Ive finished painting the miniatures, and have uploaded the pictures here:

TMP link

Just wanted to thank all of you guys your aid!

Beagle21 Oct 2021 4:41 p.m. PST

Anyone know if Russian division, corps and army commanders had personal standards or any other way to display their position on the battlefield? The image of Reynolds arriving at the front line at Gettysburg in the movie springs immediately to mind…

von Winterfeldt22 Oct 2021 11:39 p.m. PST

they did not

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