"Need Help on the GD Division" Topic

Ok, I got all the info I need for 130th Pz Lehr and the Hermann Goring Division (two of the Biggest Divisions in the German Army, now I am working on the third GD.

In two areas, concerning GD, I am falling short its Pz Regiment and its Panzerjager Battalion.

I need to know where I can find info on these two formation in the GD division, and any help will be appreciated, just do not recommend wikipedia.

Thanks ahead of time……

link

I have most of the things that you'll find on Amazon. You would likely find the Squadron/Signal softback on GD the best for your purposes. It has graphic TO&E of the unit from regiment through motorized division and then through Panzer Grenadier division. As well as the other GD units, Brandenburg, Escort, Grenadier, Kurmark Divs.

I have the squadron book. GD's composition changed significantly over time as it moved from an infantry division to a panzergrenadier division. For the Panzer Regt. in July '44, HQ Co. and 1st Bn (HQ Sect and 1 – 4 Co.) of Panthers, 2nd Bn (HQ Sect and 5 – 8 Co.) of Pz. IVH and 3rd Bn (HQ Sect. and 9 -11 Co.) of Pz. VIE. There is no panzerjager unit shown, although there is a StuG Brigade with HQ and 3 batteries of StuG III F or G. This book is an excellent resource photographically and with a chronological timeline for the unit, along with (as noted) graphic unit composition for GD as it grew and for the units that were later formed from it (Brandenburg, Kurmark, etc.).

link has some information on the two including several strenght returns

I have seen a Gliederung for GD, dated to late summer of 1943. It does show a Panzerjager Abt, shown with two towed Coys and one SP Coy, nine heavy guns and nine LMGs per Coy (no indication of equipment types beyond that).

Panzer Regt shows one Panther Bn and one Panzer IV Bn, each with their fourth coy drawn in rather than printed, and one Tiger Bn with three Coys.

The Assault Gun Bn is also shown, with three Coys of eleven guns each, plus two at Bn.

Good luck sorting GD out, not the easiest formation to delve into!

Good luck sorting GD out, not the easiest formation to delve into!

Boy is that true!!!!!! It is like researching Soviet information ten years ago, or was it fifteen, hmm I need another beer!

Thanks for the info all, I'll keep checking in. And trying to cobble together more research data.

"nine heavy guns "

Conventionally Pak 40s were referred to as heavy AT guns, I'm sure such a prestigious formation as GD wouldn't have rechambered Russian guns, and probably not too many Pak 43s around at this time. If the SP company was shown as SP they will probably be some sort of Marder rather than Stugs.

I've got the orgs and strength for GDs panzer regiment at various times at home, I'll try and dig them out if I remember.

Cheers
Martin

OK, May-Jul 1942, Pz Abt GrD had:

Staff Ko and three medium panzer companies, total strength 12 x Pz II, 2 x Pz III (short 50), 18 x Pz V (kz), 12 x Pz IV (lg), 1 x PxBef. No idea what KStN but I'm guessing 1175 without the third platoon. So, 2 x Pz IV in the HQ, two more platoons of four ea and a platoon of Pz IIs.

On 18.11.1942 Pz Abt GrD reported it had:

7 z Pz II, 1 x Pz III (kz), 7 x Pz IV (kz), 12 x Pz IV (lg) and 3 x Pz Bfl.

In Feb 1943 it was reorganised as Pz Rgt GD, however it only had one Abt (the 2nd, taken from II/203 Pz Abt) with 3 x medium tank Kos plus its 13th Ko (Tigers).

Strength: 10 x Pz III(lg), 42 x Pz IV (lg), 9 x Tiger VIe, 6 x PzBfl and 28 Flammpanzers(!) The Pz IIIs were part of the Tiger company.

1st Abt was reorganising.

On 1st July 1943 the Panzer Regiment was up to full strength and had both panzer battalions (3 x medium Ko each) and the Tiger company.

Total strength: 4 x Pz II, 1 x Pz III (kz), 20 x Pz III(lg), 2 x Pz III(75), 5 x Pz IV (kz), 63 x Pz IV (lg), 15 x Tiger VIe, 8 x Pz Bfl, 14 x Flammpanzer.

Temporarily attached was Pz Rgt 39 with 192 Panthers in two battalions of 96 each (the 51st and 52nd Pz Abt). By 10th July the operational strength of the Panthers brigade was 10 tanks….

At some point after Kursk GD gots its own Panther battalion but I can't quite figure out when. It was loaned to 116th Panzer Div in May 1944, but then sent East in June.

On 31st May 1944 its reported strength (operational) was 14 (8) x Pz IV, 55(30) x Panthers and 20(12) Tigers.

It all seems to get terribly confusing after that!

Moko, what time period are you interested in?

Don,

1943 to 1944 specifically as I have good information for 1942 and down.

Odd as it sounds but the Panzer strength for this time period is very contradictory, with different sources giving very different numbers. While the rest of the Divisions strengths pretty much line up with all sources.

Thanks Martin for your info.

well 2 years is a long time, and things changed. I have 2 magazine-sized books about GD published by Squadron/Signal, a small one called Vanguard 2 by Bruce Quarrie, and a larger one by Horst Scheibert, edited by Bruce Culver. Both published in 1977. The larger one seems to be the better one also. They're both mostly picture books, but the larger one contains an OoB diagram for July 1944. It shows the Pz Rgt with 3 battalions: I Btn with 4 cos. of Panthers, II Btn with 4 cos. of Pz IVs, and III Btn with 3 cos. of Tiger Is. The staff co. with Panthers. Numbers are not given. It doesn't show a PzJgr Btn, but does show a StuG brigade, with 3 batteries.

Both the PG and PzFusilier Rgts. are shown with 1 btn in HTs and 1 in trucks. In the Aufklar. Btn. the 1st Co. has Hetzers, instead of ACs, 2 & 3 cos. have HTs 250, and 4 Co. is the hvy. wpns. co. Everything else looks pretty standard.