"Question from a Vendor about Historicon dealer room" Topic

Sorry, that should have read 'did I really expect one?'

Toby

I had to go back to your original question to see what it was.

"Most of you know me or know my products. No subject has caused more furor, concern and anger in the dealer hall than any other action I can recall over the proposed price increases vendors will have to absorb for Historicon 2010 at Valley Forge. The main bugga-boos are apparently brought about by the introduction of increased prices for piping and curtains (booths), incremental charges for things we've never had to pay extra for in the past – items such as extra tables, chairs and plugs for electricity – and the introduction of increases for choice spots such as corner placement.
I have received my dealer packet and have one question: the packet states the booth idea with attending piping and curtains etc… were decided and passed by the Board. I would like to know specifically – by name – who proposed this arrangement, who sold it to the Board and what was the reasoning behind this idea?
Toby Barrett, Thoroughbred Figures"

I think all we have established is what you already knew. The head of the HCC (which sold the move to the BOD) had nothing to do with the decisions, either to abandon the BCC contract, move to VFCC, nor yet to switch from 6' tables at $135 USD to 10' booths for a mere $400. USD

These questions might best be asked on the HMGS EAST Announcements Forum.

However, the probably answers are pretty clear.

Both VFCC and BCC cost about $45,000 vice the $11,009 for the HOST for "Facility Infrastructure" (idiot for "Meeting Rooms.")

Since HMGS EAST spent either $89K or $97K more than it took in last year when it was paying $11,009 for space at the HOST, obviously prices have to go up. So they have dramatically raised the prices.

It is not for pipe and drape. It is to cover the cost for the BOD's and HCC's delusions of grandeur. And it will probably fall far short. I expect COLDWARS 2010 to take in much less than planned than the amount of the projected positive cash flow for this year ($1,372.)

Since there was once a dealer's organization (the HGBA) formed to represent the interests of the vendor community I expected (sort of) that it might be seeking explanations from the BORG and HCC.

The HGBA didn't seem to be very effective. But it solved its problems by kicking me out some months ago. Having solved its problems, presumably the HGBA became vastly more effective in pursuing its goals.

I asked around at COLDWARS when I got the news about the 10'square pipe and drape crap. But all people could tell me was that the HGBA, having accomplished its goal of removing me, seemed to have gone into a persistent vegetative state if not death.

Best answer to your questions is, good luck finding out which members of the BOD voted for the increases, but the place to ask is on the announcements forum.

And the reason why the prices are up is not pipe and drape worship (an heresy of Mike Cosentino) but because someone has to pay for the mindless extravagance of current and recent HMGS EAST management.

Pat Condray

PS: Toby, did you get your t-shirt? I got mine.

Hopefully after a year of dealing with a very onery BOD, many of you are now aware of ongoing problems within our organization. If the dealers get together and take some sort of action or protest to make their point, I don't have a problem with it. However, there are now six possible candidates for the BOD in the election. One or two I feel are in the mold of current BOD material due to previous contact with the BOD. That may or may not be disqualifying in your view. Others are new and at least say they want to be fiscally responsible and meet the needs of the membership. So I won't have any trouble picking three of them and I hope they act as advertised. If they do perhaps some sanity will return. So please vote. This time it will have to make a difference.

The place for HMGS EAST electioneering is the HMGS EAST announcements forums.

However, I would suggest that never having been involved with anyone in the current BORG is hardly a qualification for leadership.

In particular, beware of candidates who think that revenue neutral conventions are a feasible approach to HMGS EAST operation.

I certainly think that complete separation from any of the existing politburo is an absolute prerequisite if not a sufficient qualification.

You may be aware Pat that I am unwelcome on the HMGS forum, so I don't go there. Electioneer away.

VonL, have you been banned, or informed not to visit ?

I knew there was a minor (IMO) issue with your name
being absent from a post, but I'd hardly see that as
reason for banning someone, especially if it was a
mere oversight.

Heck, recently a BoD candidate posted his answers to
some questions w/o posting his name. He did correct
it subsequently, though.

I never figured out why it was bad to post things on East here on TMP. This is a free country and the way that East has been a closed shop for most of the past decade left you no choice but to post here. The best way to clear the skeletons out of the closet is to let some sunshine in and be open.

What cracks me up are all of the guys who wore protest
t-shirts at Cold Wars and yucked it up about how outraged they were at the high cost of booths at this year's Historicon, then went and bought booths anyway.
Was I the only one who actually said no to Extorticon?
Pat, Bob and Dennis, how many booths with pipe and drape did you sign up for? When it's all over, let me know how it worked out for you.

Tumbleweed

Since you asked.

HISTORICON remains, in spite of the ridiculous restructuring and price increases this year a competitive venue for selling toy soldiers. I did speak to Steve Verdoliva, who headed HMGS PSW for decades before leaving California to work for GAMA. He has made it clear that the ORIGINS $250 USD booth for "new dealers" comes with no chairs or tables and I think you have to buy your own pipe and drape. Also, they have a pre-selected pipe and drape contractor. I figure they probably have half the HM gamers in attendance that HISTORICON does.

Had I opted for ORIGINS it probably would have been in addition to not instead of HISTORICON. Sometimes I go there to see how the other half lives.

However, for better or worse the designer (Jim Brokaw) has pulled back the rights to the EB figure line and may produce them himself. So I don't need as much display space.

The vendor coordinator (at that time exhibitor coordinator) for COLDWARS 2010 stuck me in the balcony. I was next to a gentleman who sells audio history tapes and related books (Aaron Elson.) We're taking a booth at HISTORICON for $200 USD each plus our $50 USD each donation to the evil revenuers of King of Prussia.

So basically I'm paying $20 USD less than last year, and $50 USD of that doesn't go to HMGS EAST.

Von Loudon and Doug-I didn't know other people besides myself got banned from HMGS forums or chapters. Welcome to the club.

From late July until, I think after FALL IN!,the then President Pete Panzeri made a concerted effort to censor the HMGS EAST Issues Forum. The name was changed to announcements (thus by implication "top down" rather than "discussion.") That had been going on for while. But the immediate emphasis was sparked because I criticized a spending proposal from Orest Swystun on the HMGS EAST (about not of) forum and pointed out that the budget was already in the red and the red ink was spreading. Apparently I was the only one not on the BOD or Budget Committee to notice. Well, actually I was on the latter, but the "secret" information had been posted in the files of the issues/announcements forum. The "rules" forbidding anyone from repeating anything published on the "announcements" forum were posted twice a month.

During that period TMP was the best place to air controversial issues about HMGS EAST. But since Heather took over moderation of "announcements" it has been wide open.And since it is limited to HMGS EAST members it seems a better place to discuss HMGS EAST politics.

Even after Heather took over I did get a threat from Dudley Garidel, the outgoing treasurer to have me kicked out of HMGS EAST (as I have been kicked out by the seemingly defunct HGBA and the much diminished HMGS SOUTH.) However, I checked the ByLaws and pointed out that while the BOD could cancel a membership (I don't think it has ever been done) if the member objects it has to be done by referendum of the entire membership. That apparently took all the fun out of it for him.

Anyway, I'll stick with HMGS EAST while we both last, though if the vendor arrangements get much sillier I may save money and just run games.

My loyalty will probably not extend to the purchaser of the copyright after the bankruptcy brought on by the Baltimore Convention Center's suit for breach of contract.

Pat Condray

I never figured out why it was bad to post things on East here on TMP. This is a free country and……….

Doug, it is NOT bad to post things here and yes it is a free country, so do what you want.

I originally warned MasterCaster that he would have a more appropriate response by asking his question on a more appropriate board. Read the entire thread and see for yourself how his query was handled. It depends on what sort of answer you actually expect to receive.

Ralph

Have to agree with you Pat. I really wonder how they will get on if they lose the lawsuit about the BCC. I also read the budgets and am always amazed at it.

The Host was never a favorite spot of mine and always hoped they could find a better spot. But I also never wanted them to spend 4 times the money on a venue.

"The Host was never a favorite spot of mine and always hoped they could find a better spot. But I also never wanted themt o spend 4 times the money on a venue."

If you want the convention in better venue, you have to spend more money.

For the life of me I just can't fathom why this point is lost on people.

"Yeah, I hate my Yugo and want a BMW, but heck, I'm not paying 40 grand for a car."

Then stick with your Yugo, ie, the Host…………..

No Tumbelweed, you are not the only one.
CHRKREBS: I asked my questions one-on-one with the key folks running the dealer hall or who have anything to do with running the convention. No answer from the President, the Con ops VP, the Convention Director or the Dealer Room Coordinator. A bunch of mum idiots. The only answer I got was nobody knew who decided or why. If you really think I would have gotten any kind of answer on any other forum I think you would be dreaming. The BoD folks can skirt a question or an issue just as well on the organizations Yahoo forum. They rushed into the VF with eyes wide shut. It would have been better for the organization, financially speaking, to not have an Historicon this year at all – and that's coming from a dealer! Anyone else want to think long-term here? I doubt it. They just wanted their 10' x 10' and now they've got them.
Toby Barrett

Thanks for asking Ed and Pat. I'm not banned at all. I'm just tired of the beatings I'm taking by trying to get somebody in authority to answer my questions about the contracts, the costs of everything, and the budget. Every time I ask a question there, I step on someone's toes and no one can answer a thing cause it's a lawsuit ladies and gentlemen from the original contracts to the VFCC contract to how much did we spend anyway. Even Mike the attorney (I keep asking is he our attorney) chewed my hindparts. However, I am happy for holes in the pants if more of you are aware (and I think you are) of what has transpired since last year in HMGS; what they've done this year to make it even more interesting and costly, and the burning question, will HMGS survive? Stay tuned it will be even more fun I assure you. Now volunteers to get their butt chewed?

Toby, been there done that. Unlike you, Pat and Double G, I have $20.00 USD a year invested in HMGS. That's it. It would be so easy to walk away. But for some reason and I think it's all of my friends among you, I don't want too. Like Pat says, I will probably draw the line at supporting the next copyright holder. Game over.

vonL,

After 25 years I had no problem walking away from HMGS, and will stay away until there is a SERIOUS change in the organization!! I hope many, maybe even hundreds follow!!

I doubt our esteemed "pro-bono" lawyer will continue to work for nothing, as the lawsuit thickens!! $500.00 USD an hour is $500.00 USD dollars an hour, plus court appearences!

No doubt it will all be settled out of court, as our former President doesn't DARE risk testifying under oath!!

Remember the great $5.00 USD per member per year increase for the "Education Fund"? Often wonder what happened to all that money!!!! Probably went to speaker's fees I imagine!! What you call return on investment!!

All in all, I grew tired of being blown off, and getting ticked off!! Now, I'll just enjoy my hobby like always, and wait for that late October announcement!!

Yes, sir. This is much more serious than a lot of people think isn't it?

I really do see HMGS-East as a "Dead Man Walking". I think it is only a matter of time (late October apparently?).

I've already "walked". I went to HCon 2008 (only one that year) and haven't been to any since. I used to go to at least 2/year and sometimes 3. I gave up my membership about 3-4 years ago.

If the organization survives the ex-President's remaining term, then I'll come back and try to help it rise from the ashes, but I am not supporting the kind of behavior I've been witnessing for the past 5 years or so.

Ditto, I'm done with them until I see a reason to come back. Until then, I'll stick with the local cons.

CHRKREBS: I asked my questions one-on-one with the key folks running the dealer hall or who have anything to do with running the convention. No answer from the President, the Con ops VP, the Convention Director or the Dealer Room Coordinator. A bunch of mum idiots.

I don't know if they are idiots or not, but perhaps asking the crew responsible for Cold Wars about an issue dealing with Historicon won't work.

If you really think I would have gotten any kind of answer on any other forum I think you would be dreaming. The BoD folks can skirt a question or an issue just as well on the organizations Yahoo forum.

Maybe I am dreaming, but you didn't get an answer here. What could it hurt to ask Bob Giglio directly on the Yahoo site?

They rushed into the VF with eyes wide shut.

Yes, and they were goaded into this by "Move Historicon Now!" fanboys and the those who insisted on taking Historicon to "the Next Level"! They have been awfully quiet since then.

Ralph

Hi Ralph:
You're misunderstanding me. I did talk to the Historicon folks and the Con ops guy directly. Preziosa is the only one with Cold Wars ties along with the Con ops guy, but Preziosa is also the organization president and ultimately the responsible one.
I have Bob Giglio's direct work number and his email and contacted him one-on-one. I like Bob but there was absolutely no 'mia copa' comikng from him on all this. It's amazing what decision-making power he, as Historicon Director, has let the Board take away. It wasn't like that in the past, not as much as it is today anyway.
One final explanation; I consider anyone an idiot who thinks I'm an idiot that would swallow a bunch of BS about the entire HMGS East situation and convention scene.
Toby Barrett

Well Toby, I do hope things work out for you and the other vendors. I can only assume that the facilities at VF cost a lot more and the vendors are to make up some (all?) of the difference. Many of my acquaintances are doubtful that they are going. But this is more about proximity to the 4th of July than anything else.

Ralph

What happens if East goes under or is seriously reduced in cash supply by this diaster?

If, in fact, the HMGS BOD has actually managed to bankrupt the organization, my hope is that a successor organization could quickly be formed and take up the flag and run the shows (or new ones replacing the existing ones if acquiring the names is too much hassle). I, for one, would be willing to try and help something like that succeed any way I could, as long as none (NONE, meaning not one in any capacity) of the current and recent band of commissars was involved.

I hope a significant portion of the membership feels the same way. I would hate to see these conventions disappear.

The level of megalomania and incompetence required to take an organization with $250k+ in cash and no significant liabilities (or the need to incur any) and run it into the ground in a year doing the same thing it has done for 25 years is astonishing.

"What happens if East goes under or is seriously reduced in cash supply by this disaster?"

Then all of the non East people who never come to Cold Wars, Historicon or Fall In but whine non stop on this and other forums about East and our cons will have nothing to and moan about anymore, they'll have to find something else to cry about.