"Looking for some squadron histories" Topic

Any good histories, like the Flying Circus, Lafayette Escadrille or others? Any organizational charts with planes used?

Thanks,
Brian

Yes. There are books out there that cover certain famous squadrons pretty well.

As for your second question, not so much. There is some stuff on the internet that is so-so until you start looking hard at it. Then you will find all kinds of generalizations and errors.

I would add that some of the squadron histories are really expensive for what you get. They are wonderful physical products but contain precious little that would be of interest to a wargamer (or just about anyone else for that matter).

I do cover all the American Units in Yanks. Been working on Brits for over a year and not close to done. The French Belgian book will be a long time coming.

If you have a particular unit in mind, I can probably provide you with a synopsis.

mjc

Lafayete Escadrille, The Hat in the Ring squadron, the Flying Circus, Billy Bishop's squadron….

Thanks,
Brian

Billy Bishop did not have a squadron. He was essentially the commander for all American combat aircraft -- although for a time General Folious was his commander and technically in command of American combat aircraft. Mitchell was elevated to the top position (functionally speaking) after the Soisons Offensive and officially after the St. Mihiel Offensive.

Hat in the Ring (94th Aero) Flew Nieuport 28s until the Soisons Offensive (which they missed because they were changing over to the SPAD 13s). They then flew SPAD 13s until the end of the war.

Lafayete Escadrille is complicated -- don't have my sources and off the top of my head cannot remember everything about it. For the most part they flew SPAD 7's but in the early going I think they flew Nieuport 17s or 11s -- not sure about this would have to look it up. The Americans in the Lafayete Escadrille were absorbed into a number of American units in the Spring of 1918 but the unit continued on as a French SPA squadron -- manned entirely by French pilots until the end of the war.

The Richtoffen's Flying Circus wasn't a squadron or 'jasta'. It was composed of four separate Jastas. The Germans formed three 'Circus' units during the war. They were called Jagdgeswaders -- often abbreviated to JG. They were JG 1 (Richtoffen), JG 2 (Bertholt), and JG 3. The first two were elite outfits. JG 3 -- not so much. Each Jasta was essentially a squadron. Sorry but off the top of my head, I cannot give you all the aircraft types flown for the entire war. The JG units often received the best and latest aircraft. JG 1 and JG 2 absorbed the vast majority of the Fokker Triplanes and were the first to receive the Fokker D.7 and D.7(F). JG 2 received the SSW-3 and SSW-4 but flew them very little -- they thought the SSW had potential but the engine life was measured in hours for these aircraft as the Germans had no adequate lubricant for their engines.

The Brits also formed formations that were sometimes called Circus formations. One of the better ones contained the 2nd Australian Squadron, the 4th Australian Squadron, and a squadron of British Bristol Fighters (Buffs). The three squadrons frequently operated as a air superiority unit much like the German JG units.

Hope that helps some.

It appears you have an interest in the American units. I have laid out each and every one of the American Aero Squadrons that deployed to Europe in my Yanks book. Covers Army squadrons, the Marine units and the Navy Northern Bomber Group. Yanks also provides quite a bit of information on all aircraft flown by Americans and most of the German aircraft they faced.

You can order this directly from me -- $35.00. In your case, I'll hand deliver it.

mjc

I have a number of aircraft (built in 1/72) from the units you have mentioned. Let me know if you want to see them some time.

mjc

Bishop? Hey Mike: Up too late, last night? ; )

Up way too late Don. You are right.

Please change any references I made to Billy Bishop to Billy Mitchell.

mjc

Jasta 11 may have been the premier Jasta in JG 1 (Richthofen).

Jasta 11 flew mostly (perhaps exclusively) Albatros D5 and D5a aircraft in mid 1917.

On June 26, JG 1 was formed by combining Jastas 4, 6, 10, and 11.

Richthofen received the first of the legendary Fokker Dr.1 Triplanes (actually this was a prototype V-4 type) first flown on August 28, 1917.

The numbers of Triplanes were initially very small. Often only flown by the flight leader -- the Albatros remained the dominate aircraft in Jasta 11.

By the end of October, structural deficiencies in the Fokker Triplane had become apparent and all of the Triplanes were 're-called'. Jasta 11 would once more rely entirely on the Albatros D5a. The Fokker Dr.1 would not return to service until well into the winter.

1918 would be the year of decision for the Great War. Jasta 11 would be entirely equipped with the Fokker Triplane prior to the great German spring offensives. They would fly the Triplane until mid-May.

In mid April, early models of the Fokker D.7 began appearing in front line units. These aircraft were not flown in any numbers until roughly mid-May, 1918. Shortages of Caster oil lead to the abandonment of the Fokker Triplane because its rotary engine could not be adequately lubricated. The in-line engines of the Fokker D.7 didn't have this problem and Jasta 11 rapidly converted to the Fokker D.7.

Jasta 11 would fly the Fokker D.7 until the end of the war. Undoubtedly some of these aircraft were the Fokker D.7(F) model.

mjc

Billy Bishop was a Canadian serving in the RFC. He initially served as an observer in 21 Squadron. When he was injured in an accident, he was sent to England to recover. In September of 1916 he was accepted for pilot training.

Bishop was posted to 60 squadron in March of 1917 (which was then flying Nieuport 17s). Bishop survived bloody April mostly with pluck and luck. Bishop was renown for 'leading the charge' and would frequently return with his aircraft riddled with bullet holes (210 on one occasion).

Bishop was wise enough to realize that this kind of flying would ultimately lead to his demise. He would later become a consummate aerial tactician -- frequently flying along looking to ambush unaware German aircraft. The SE5a was fast enough to allow Bishop to surprise and engage larger numbers of German aircraft and still allow Bishop to break off if things got too hot.

In July 60 Squadron converted to SE5a aircraft. Bishop flew these until the end of the war.

mjc

Thanks!! Iwould be interested in your book. I'll hook up with you after my return from vacation to Salt Lake after April 3.

Brian