"RussoPolish War of 1919-20 Painting Questions" Topic

I've painted up a Boloshevik armored car for use in the RussoPolish War and Im now wondering if I should paint a red star on it or go with some appropriate Communist battle cry scrawled on it instead.
Anyone know of any place where I can find a Cyrillic saying which would fit?

Also I've painted a Polish volunteer battalion, composed of mostly university students, I want them to have a flag also even though I imagine there weren't a lot of flags flown by that time in history, at least on the battlefield. Any ideas on an appropriate flag? I was thinking maybe some kind of Polish madonna with a pithy slogan in Polish?

On the one in the coloured plates behind Trotsky's armoured train guard (Osprey's Red Army book), it simply says KOMMYHAP.

I've not seen red stars on armoured cars but they had them on planes and other things. As there were no rules to govern the markings your hand is pretty free. Just steer clear from the hammer and sickle, you'll be fine.

Not sure about the Polish flag, I haven't seen any picture evidence. They wouldn't have had their own official ones or ones from previous forces so an improvised religious icon would be a good estimate.

Flags were pretty common in the RCW as uniform lines were blurred and some militia troops were inexperienced and needed the visual cues.

Some sort of star/hammer-and-plough/red flag symbol with a name for your armoured car is the way to go. (Slogans less so, though anything goes really.)

How about Stenka Razin: Стенька Разин . There was a real car of this name abandoned on the Polish front. Yours could be a replacement for it (and hence avoid issues of being the correct type).

Or for half slogan-half name there is Death to (the) Bourgeois: смерть буржуям

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You should be able to get Polish flag ideas from the flags in the Warsaw military museum. Some notes, plus poor quality pictures, from my visit:

link

Madonna and slogan is good, but you need something different for the other side as well. Some sort of eagle on red/white theme would be simplest.

Actually, a Madonna picture is a bad idea, it would have been considered sacrilegious. On this Wikipedia page you have an example of modern military banner and simpler, but similar elements would be highly probable on banners from earlier periods – simple white and red motif and white eagle with crown. Slogans, if any, could be put around or below the eagle.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sztandar

'Actually, a Madonna picture is a bad idea, it would have been considered sacrilegious'

Why did the Poles consider it so? The Austrians and Russians had religious images (including the Madonna) on some of their banners in the same and earlier periods. The cover to the Osprey on the RCW shows a contemporary picture of such an image.

For a pretty good selection, do a google image search for the term "polskie sztandary". There are number of options shown from the early 20th c.

Hallers blue army had an flag blessed by the pope,there was a website with a clearer version of this picture:

picture

And the explanation in a side bar, but apparently gone.

More found flags in that army here:

link

It is not confirmed if it was just for parade/HQ or an actual battle colour.

It is not clear if this was usual or not, but with Catholicism twinned with the polish identity as much as the Piast Eagle, the Jagiellon cross and the red and white colours, i'm sure you cant go too wrong with those.

More on the historical dynasties of the Poles

link

link

Also coat of arms from historical Polish clans

link

I wonder if any of those made a return during the fighting?

Thanks everyone for all the great ideas and a wealth of places to look. This will be a great help to me.

One comment though – Minondas, you were saying a madonna would be a bad idea as it is sacrilegeous, well, Mark Plant's museum notes/pics shows units of that war having Madonna's on their flags. I think I'd go with what Mark has.

There are plenty of example of the Madonna on Polish flags from the middle ages to modern day.

Sorry for not being completely clear regarding my reasoning – there are no rules 'written in stone' that I can point to and I'm not suprised at all that there are Polish military banners depicting Madonna. After all, one of holiest relics of Poland is Black Madonna of Czestochowa.

At the same time I wouldn't be suprised if majority of such banners belonged to 'pospolite ruszenie', majority of which would consist of peasants. There is a clear difference in how that part of population and town population regards such symbols. And since mghFond's unit would consist of university students, my gut feeling is that white eagle and red/white colors would be the natural choice.

Of course, as this picture seems to indicate, I could also be completely wrong. (Right period too. :-)

picture

Great photo, Minondas! I might just use that flag for my volunteers unit.

Then you may just as well know what the text on the banner says – "Under Your Protection". Glad to be of some service. :-)