| En Avant | 13 Mar 2010 10:03 p.m. PST |
The Russians, with only 18 pieces of artillery on their circular mound entrenches could paralized the French atacks, covered their centre , enable the french left and when finally they were taken the loss of the atackers was inmense. About that, please allow me to ask two questions. 1º It wasn't possible to destroy those reducts by the own french artillery? Or it would take many time that Napoleon didn't had?. 2º Would be more intelligent to launch the most heavy atack to the right of the Russian line?
Using the reserves in support of Eugene Corp and manouvring against the cossack of Platov maybe this flanck could be turn off? Thanks in advance for your comments.
Amicalement
Armand |
| Chuvak | 14 Mar 2010 12:00 a.m. PST |
Armand, No. 1
The redoubts themselves were placed on quite high ground, the guns well covered. Absent siege calibre artillery, I do not think the French 12-lvr guns could really batter the positions faster then the Russians could repair them. I have seen plans of the Borodino field fortifications (but I surely can't remember where and when) – maybe our "Big Al' can post a link to such. No. 2
An attack on the Russian right posed some problems for the French :
- the river turned so that it would have been to the French rear for much of the advance in a turning movement
- the bulk of the Russian reserves were here
- the retreat of the Russians may have be harder to compromise from this direction (Napoléon was concerned that the Russians would not really stand and give him his hoped-for decisive battle).
- the Italians were as yet mostly unblooded and thought to be perhaps less reliable than the veteran French corps – the Italians had formed the left of the French advance for some time, and it would have been dangerous (as well as quite revealing) to try shifting them in preference for French troops so close to the enemy. The Cossacks under Platov were not the defenders on the Russian right, they just attcked in that direction later in the battle. After the initial line of jägers and Cossack piquets, the main line on the Russian right was held by the 2nd Corps of Baggovut and the 4th Corps of Osterman-Tolstoy (about 47 battalions, with the usual Russian abundance of artillery). Yet certainly Davout did propose a turning movement in place of a frontal attack – but on the Russian left. Here were similar issues :
- the woods woud tend to disrupt and attack
- the Poles, a rather smaller corps, on the far right of the French would have to lead
- the Russians could retreat if they wished to do so. Overall, Kutuzov chose a good location for a battle of attrition and the Russians prepared that location quite well. Napoléon felt constrained to fight on this basis, at this location. But in retrospect, I think Davout had the best idea. Chuvak |
| von Winterfeldt | 14 Mar 2010 12:30 a.m. PST |
Just read Mikaberizde, Alexander : The Battle of Borodino, it will answer most of your questions and it shows also what problems at least the outflanking moves of Poniatowski were facing. |
| Swampster | 14 Mar 2010 4:05 a.m. PST |
IIRC, the Russians were deployed expecting the main thrust to come from what became their right flank. They had loads of forces here. |
| nvrsaynvr | 14 Mar 2010 4:25 p.m. PST |
The French artillery eventually did supress the central redoubt. However, it could not deploy directly opposite, because there was a woods along the stream at the Russian kill zone, and trying to deploy there would have been a nightmare. Instead, the French established batteries to the north, above the river. That's why Eugene was north of the river to start the battle, and why the quick loss of Borodino was a more significant event than is usually noted. As others have said the Russian left flank was protected by the river and strongly defended. |
| goragrad | 14 Mar 2010 7:36 p.m. PST |
This seems to be a fairly decent account (he shows Mikaberidze as a source). link
The account notes that the Poles started out to flank the Russians but couldn't get their artillery up due to soft (marshy) ground and woods and were forced to backtrack.
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| nvrsaynvr | 15 Mar 2010 11:57 a.m. PST |
D'oh! that should be the "Russian right flank" in the above… |
| sergeis | 20 Mar 2010 1:07 p.m. PST |
Если у тебя есть фонтан- заткни его! ( Козьма Прутков) |
| Chuvak | 20 Mar 2010 2:34 p.m. PST |
И этот …. « Если хочешь быть красивым, поступи в гусары. » Чувак |
| sergeis | 20 Mar 2010 6:33 p.m. PST |
Я это об Арманде- как в первом классе- одни вопросы…
Книжек у него в Патагонии нет что ли? Ексель-моксель! |
| Chuvak | 20 Mar 2010 8:23 p.m. PST |
Ё-моё! Я соглашаюсь! И здесь – Петер – библиотеки и книги бесчисленный.
Так – я даю ответы. Ваш американский друг,
Чувак |
