"Jump or Burn?" Topic

Does anyone have more info? Any playtesters out there? Should I get these rules or hang on to my copy of Blue Max? Never been a fan of Piquet..... nice cover art but cover not maketh the game.

Thanks,
Larry

I am interested, but a bit leery. How can you have random movement in a game where the minis have momentum? They do not just hang there waiting their turn.

But I do have an open mind, and do have about 40 1:72 aeroplanes.

I'm rather skeptical on this one. If the game uses Piquet cards, I can see one plane staying motionless (because it has no PIPS) while the enemy planes fly around it.

A Piquet-inspired skirmish ruleset we developed here in St. Paul uses cards for actions as well as movement. I do not know if Jump or Burn uses anything like this system.

In our system, the deck contains cards marked for each of the movement rates, say, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. An equal number of each card type is in each deck. All figures of all sides move on ANY sides' draw of a movement card that bears a number equal to or less than the figure's rate. Turning a card costs a PIP; movement itself costs no PIPs.

For example, Side Blue draws a '3' movement card. All figures with rate 3, 4, or 5 on both sides move. Rate 1 and 2 figures do not move on this card. Side Red draws a '1'. All figures move on both sides--everyone has a rate equal to or greater than '1'.

This way, speed 5 moves five times MORE OFTEN than speed 1. As long as each move is the same distance (that is, everyone moves, say, one inch per move), this results in speed 5 being five times FASTER than speed 1, and so on.

As far as I know, Neil Stokes first solved this problem this way for our 'Piquet-inspired' skirmish game, l'Affaire de Piquet. [Like Jump or Burn, "Although it shares the concepts of cards and dice adjustment mechanisms, it does not require the Piquet Master Rules to play." It is 'inspired by' not 'a derivative of' Piquet.] l'Affaire de Piquet, in one form or another, will be available sometime soon. That is, once all the intra-group wrangling dies down! :^)

I, too, am leary of this off-shoot of Piquet. Will we see a Sopwith Camel sitting at the same point on the board for two hours waiting for a "Fly Straight" card? However, this has inspired me to start work on a Johnny Reb III variant for World War Two naval combat.....

Note: I DO see what you guys are saying, though. The Piquet system is not just some cookie-cutter to apply in all situations for any era. It works lock, stock and barrel in the horse and musket periods, but has drawbacks in ancients and modern battle, at least as the supplements have been written up to now.

(Most of) our group are big fans of Piquet for Napoleonics, but we've been less successful at the (internal) sell for other eras.

Jump or Burn is an off shoot of Piquet but it is its own game. The card decks are driven by a different set of mechanics than normal Piquet for exactly the reasons stated by most of you above. You can't have a Sopwith Camel sitting idle in the fluidity of air combat.

JoB handles this with an elegance that is unlike any air war game I have played.

This is snipped from the rules:

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1. Build a deck of cards for each aircraft. The composition of each deck can be found in the AIRCRAFT DATA TABLES. The deck will be 21 cards plus up to 3 ace cards. The deck represents the qualitative capability of the aircraft and the possible actions that are available to a player over the course of a GAME TURN. Each GAME TURN is subdivided into 3 GAME MOVES.

2. Shuffle the deck and deal out 7 cards. These cards represent the possible actions available to the player (henceforth referred to as the 'pilot') in a GAME MOVE. Each game move is made up of 7 SEGMENTS.

3. Each pilot now plays one SEGMENT by playing one card. After a card is played each pilot must declare any intended action. In some cases more than one card can be played in one segment. The possible multiple card actions are described in the card definition section of the rules. Each Pilot must play his card in the following sequence each segment:
-----------------------------------------------

Then there is a list of requirements for playing the cards.

Obviously I can't print the rules here but you see how the cards are used - not like traditional Piquet at all.

It is fast, furious and fun. It has agreat campaign system as well.

If you are at Cold Wars stop by and see a demo at the booth.

Jeff

I have a novel idea. Lets play the game before we condemn it. Its not as much fun but it is more logical.

KAM

im planning on buying it, sounds like a lot of fun, i also play all my games solo, this sounds like it would work well solo.

What if I want to turn right, but don't have the card?

I think it is fair to question the system on this site as much as it is fair to advertise it.

Larry

Larry,

I pay to advertise on TMP and I did not start this thread. I am actaully defending the critisisms of those who have not played the game and dislike Piquet (no problem with that BTW).

To answer your question, you will have 7 cards to start the Segment and chances are because of the deck make up (based on each plane and its characteristics)you will have a card that will allow you to turn. You have to decide the sequence in which to play your cards so you turn at the right moment to acheive your goal. All the while your opponents are doing the same. It can make for a wild ride. In addition the cards can be combined to do ariel acrobatic manuevers.

If for some reason you did not have a card to allow you to turn you would have to climb, dive go straight, etc. Life is like that, sometimes we can't do what we want to for various reasons.

Jeff

Sounds interesting.

John

Jeff, thanks for the additional information about JoB. How is altitude handled in JoB? Do I have to have my planes mounted on telescoping antennas or something like that? One reason that I always liked the original "Blue Max" game was that altitude was eliminated from the simulation.

Yeah, Jeff, the method of holding a hand of cards is another way to smooth over card droughts. I seem to remember this being one of the early suggested Piquet 'heresies' all those many years ago. And a good suggestion, too.

Our group is going to pick up a set of JoB at Cold Wars.

BTW, what captain canada suggests is patently absurd. In all cases. Does he think he's some Vulcan? Logical, indeed! :^) Buy those rules at Cold Wars, Mr. Spock. OK?

There wasn't a single pilot in WWII who couldn't turn right if they wanted to (unless the plane was damaged) with the stick and rudder configuration......

Don't be so defensive - be glad some of us are interested and inquiring.

Larry

"There wasn't a single pilot in WWII who couldn't turn right if they wanted to (unless the plane was damaged) with the stick and rudder configuration......"

Perhaps the question is not whether the pilot can turn, or is able to turn...but rather whether that he perceives a need to turn. Can he see all his opponents (unlike our omniscient selves)? Can he extrapolate all the various jinks and turns his enemies and friends are making?

In other words, they might be trying to model the fog of war of WWI combat, rather than the technical aspects of the flying machines.

Just my thoughts,
Tony

Twhitley. Sounds like the name of some white supremicist (sp?). I bet your group has all kinds of rules. I know the types, complete with midgets and freaks, government employees and more graduate degrees than you can shake a stick at.

Hell you probably even have token Canadians in a vain attempt to add class.

KAM

JEff, I think it sounds interesting. Does the games use a map grid or open table movement?

----SNIP----
There wasn't a single pilot in WWII who couldn't turn right if they wanted to (unless the plane was damaged) with the stick and rudder configuration......

Don't be so defensive - be glad some of us are interested and inquiring.

Larry
----END SNIP-----

Please forgive the short post I am about out thedoor for Cold Wars.....

It is not that they could not turn if they wanted, it is just within that 30 second (the segment time scale) span they might have other things going on that they did not plan on. So if they intended to turn 12 seconds into the segment but suddenly a plane on there flank drew attention, perhaps they did not turn until 18 seconds in to the segment.

It just illustrated Fog of war. TONY above hit it on the head.

Jeff

Movement is handled in inches, open movement

There are altitude requirements but we show how to make a rig for each plane in the book or you can just use a d6 on the base of the plane to show which one of 6 altitude bands you are in.

I am off to Cold Wars.............

Jeff

Sort of reminds me of Robo Rally

I'm very interested in the game, but I'm not fond of the title...

Jump or Burn? Tough choice.......

"I'm very interested in the game, but I'm not fond of the title..."

Although the ultimate decision always rests with the Piquet Board of Directors, the stygian depths of the Piquet Yahoogroup is often mined for ideas. We Piqueteers kicked around a number of titles (well over a year ago, I think), some serious, some silly. One advantage of having a large group with a lot of old farts is they know every previously published ruleset ever written. So, when names like "Dawn Patrol", "Flying Circus" or "Fokker Scourge" are vetted, you can be sure that someone will point out that So-and-So had a set by that name in 19-levendyleven:it really is amazing how many WWI air combat games have been published.

I don't know why they finally decided on "Jump or Burn", but at least they didn't go with "Chocks Away!" or "Mother Fokker".

I am a biased contributor to this discussion as I wrote Jump or Burn. However, there seems to be a little discontent about not being able to do what you want when you want; turn right for example.

Jump or Burn starts with the premise that, unlike the gamer, the pilot of our tiny machine does not know everything about his situation. (Most pilots were historically shot down because they didn't see it coming, they did not have the chance to turn right.) Jump or Burn brings this tension into games, and because of the speed of play this tension rises and falls, going from "I've got you now" to "Oh no!" very quickly.

The speed of play is largely down to the "elegant" (thanks Jeff) simpicity of the move sequence and complete lack of order writing. No more will the excitement of the moment be spoilt by your intended victim fussing and faffing over his next critical order writing phase.

I am confident that once played these rules will become a firm favourite with nearly everyone.

Chocks away,

James.

Two more questions answered.

Jump or Burn uses an altitude scale of 1 - 20. Models do not need to be put on sticks of varying height though, the height is indicated with the face of a d20. Meaurement is across flats with gunnery modifiers for attitude to altitude.

The title Jump or Burn has been with me for nearly 30 years. I am unsure of its origins, but I would put a pound on the phrase coming from a coversation between two characters in a BBC WWI drama I saw back then; a new pilot was given his options if his plane caught fire (I think) and the phrase stuck. Now its something to say when your opponent is going down in flames. (I'm a big fan of
Mannock who said on hearing about Richthofen's death "I hope he roasted the whole way down!")

James.

I helped James with the playtesting and design of JoB. The game is fun and easy to play. During the playtesting we ran the game at some of our local wargame shows and found that players of all ages and sexes enjoyed the game.

The simple mechanics I believe solves the problem with slow games due to complex order writing. I have played games using other rules and remember once in a 2 hour game I got just one shot off. This will not happen with JoB.

What is all nice is that younger gamers also enjoy the game. Our local Warhammer club still talk about the game we put on for them.

There are a few pictures of a participation game I ran at the Durham show last summer on our website.

link

Mark ( AKA Ludwig Renn who now has 10 kills to his name and 3 Ace cards in his deck. )

Hi

or the WW2 variant: "those Fokkers were in Messerschmitts"?

Rocky
Who flew Canvas Falcons last night.

Great thread! We 'outted' the author and one of the playtesters!

St. Paul will definitely try the rules soon.

Sounds an interesting set. As far as not being able to turn right - Zoolander couldn't do it on the 'runway' there is precedent!

"Sort of reminds me of Robo Rally"

My thoughts exactly.
Which isn't a bad thing.
:)
Kevin