"Alamo or Waterloo? The most famous battle?" Topic

The years they used to emphasize in school were 1066, 1492, 1588 and 1776. As for the Alamo vs. Waterloo, in the states it is hands down the Alamo. Disney, Fess Parker and later John Wayne made the Alamo and Davy Crockett American icons.

Most people can instantly recognize the front silhouette of the Alamo. It was and is used to sell all kinds of products. It is a hallmark of American Pop culture. It is a part of the American Psyche.

Most people outside my home state couldn't tell you what year it happened, but they have heard of the Alamo and Davy Crockett and they recognized that silhouette. Although the famous hump was not present during the actual battle. The hump was added by the US Army in the mid 1850s when they used the Alamo as a supply depot. In Europe it's Waterloo, no question about it.

By the way I am not big on cross posting but this is a good example of a topic that would be appropriate to also post on to the general boards. But that's just my opinion.

'The Alamo' from this part of Australia…even if it wasn't a battle…from the older people. Most of the younger wouldn't have a clue about either.

Younger kids soon Khe Sanh?
My kid just had to choose his subjects for exams at 16yr.
History – WW2 & Vietnam wars, causes & results.

Dang, I watched that last one pan out on TV, I am now officially History. :<

I found the gold standard :

How many sets about Waterloo did Airfix make ? How many about the Alamo ?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Trafalgar or Pearl Harbour.

This side of the pond, Waterloo. I'm not sure many people would even recognise The Alamo as a 'battle' even, although they will have heard of it.

A google on 'Waterloo' returns 22 million hits, on 'The Alamo', 3 million.

Waterloo for two reasons:

1. Why would someone fight over a car rental company?
2. Ozzy Osbourne didn't pXXX over Waterloo.

Relax I'm jesting.

The Billy Bob film was better than the Duke's.

Just asked around the office and got the following replies…

Name a famous battle:

Hastings
Orgreave
Boyne
Marston Moor
Goose Green
Beanfield

There are a few in there I wasn't expecting although I bet you can tell which ones were given by the Irishman, the Sealed Knot nutter and the hippy :-)

Aristotle to Young Alexander 300 something BC

"I fear that you youngters just don't care about studying history these days! I bet you couldn't find Troy on a map!"

Are people really called "Billy Bob"?

"How many sets about Waterloo did Airfix make ? How many about the Alamo ?"

Don't know about Airfix but here in the States how many palysets did Marx Toy Company make about Waterloo? ZERO.
The Alamo, DOZENS of versions. And there was an anniversary edition just a few years ago.

"Are people really called "Billy Bob"?

Yes, they are and Jim Bob and Billy Ray too.
I've answered to Coaby Ray myself.
And don't forget Stevie Ray as in
Stevie Ray Von! ABBA who, what?

About Google, wouldn't the higher number be
for the battle people don't know about and
had to look it up?

Coabeous

What made the 1974 Eurovision Song Contest so memorable?

"The Ballad of the Alamo" Martin Roberts.

link

Coabeous

Coabeous,
That's Stevie Ray Vaughn…
I'd say Waterloo, but I'm not from Texas, but my Uncle is… not a huge fan of SRV, either.
Peter

As mentioned by some,"Waterloo" by Stonewall Jackson was a #1 country/western song for 5 weeks in the late 1950s.

<<This side of the pond, Waterloo. I'm not sure many people would even recognise The Alamo as a 'battle' even, although they will have heard of it.>>

An example of the creeping Americanisation of UK society and the concurrent eclipse of our own history (especially the non-PC bits) from our education system: A few years back an extremely exposed frontier outpost in Afghanistan, manned from time to time by detachments from some of the most illustrious regiments of the British Army (including one from Wales), was christened "The Alamo" rather than the more obvious (from the point of view of the defenders surviving if nothing else) "Rorke's Drift".

Ceterman,
Thanks, some times it just comes out the way it sounds.

"not a huge fan of SRV"
That's OK, I'm not a huge fan of ABBA either.

Coabeous

Nor am I! Now, The Drive By Truckers are another story!
Peter

I asked four people to name the top three most famous battles.

The results:

3 votes:
* Gettysburg

2 votes:
* D-Day [Battle of Normandy]
* Waterloo

1 vote:
* Balaclava
* Stalingrad
* Cannae
* Thermopylae
* Troy

Two people volunteered a fouth pick which would bump up D-Day and Stalingrad.

None of the people thought that the Alamo would be widely known outside the US (or maybe Mexico)

Orgreave! Good one.
Beanfield! Had to look that one up, PMSL now though.

When I lived in Warwickshire The Battle of Bosworth was world famous…. in the next village. Mind you the Perrys are doing figures for the WOTR so I predict in a month or two Bosworth will out Google the Alamo.

I still get car rental when I google Alamo.
link

Anyway isn't the fall of Saigon more famous than the Alamo?

No!

Bosworth is in Leicestershire…

Captain Gideon 08 Mar 2010 9:21 p.m. PST wrote:
And like what has been already said Waterloo was a MAJOR BATTLE,whereas The Alamo was a siege which lasted 13 days but it ended quick.

Well not to split hairs but the Waterloo campaign was 100 BUT The Alamo was "13 Days of Glory"

I'm an American but for me it's Waterloo all the way as the most famous Battle.

But you capitan Sir, Are NO Texan!
VR
James Mattes

"Bosworth is in Leicestershire…"

Right on the Warks border though.

Darn! I asked my children to say what battle is the first it comes to mind.

The results have surprised me.

The eldest said: Esfacteria!! (I swear! I wasn't aware he even knew about it!)

The girl: Crecy (again big surprise… I believe she would said Bailen or Waterloo)

The youngest: Trafalgar (well, at least one of them is more normal)

Conclussion: my kids aren't good samples for a survey. Too much history/wargaming at this house!

Gettysburg seems to be more widely known in europe than the Alamo.
Waterloo may get more votes with it being more of a coalition and affecting more of an area with the French being powerful foes at the time.
I must admit though, if I was to refer to a no win fight to the end scenario/battle game I will always think of the Alamo.The Alamo is always gonna be remembered as a noble last stand.

Here's an idea
Show people a picture of the Alamo chapel.
Show the same people a picture of the Waterloo battlefield.

See which one gets recognized.

Here's an idea
Show people a picture of the Alamo chapel.
Show the same people a picture of the Waterloo battlefield.

See which one gets recognized.

'Here's a picture of a ruin'

'Here's a picture of a field'

'Which one do you recognise?'

Hmmm, it's a toughie.

Yes but Waterloo had the huge mound that the British called in CAS support from! I think they even put a lion or a jet up there as well.
VR
James Mattes

James you seem to forget eventhough Waterloo was PART of the 100 days Campaign the ACTUAL Battles took place over 3 to 4 days with Waterloo being the final Battle.

Whereas the 13 days at the Alamo some of those days nothing much really happened,since it took sometime for the Mexican Army to gather.

Also what has being a Texan got to do with liking or not liking the Alamo?

To WarWizard with regards to AIRFIX they did at least 10 sets ranging from French Infantry to Prussian Infantry,plus they also did the La Haye Saint(sorry about spelling) farmhouse.

And with regards to the Alamo movies i quite enjoyed the John Wayne Alamo movie,sure it was'nt historicly accurate but it looked dammed good.

Captain Gideon

Not fair! Airfix did so many sets for Waterloo as there were so many uniforms! The Texas Defenders of Liberty only needed two boxes!
VR
James Mattes

I dunno. I spotted Waterloo from the air when I flew into Belgium in 1974.

This thread tells me that:
a – not many people are from Texas
b – people from Texas don't necessarily realise this.

Oh so it is the best known battle. That's different, in the states it is Gettysburg. In Europe I guess Waterloo. But if you mention the Alamo most people know instantly it was in Texas and probably know Crockett and Bowie was there and it is symbolic for a last ditch defense. Just as Waterloo is symbolic of someone's final defeat, after so many victories. It is part of our lexicon.

The Billy Bob Thornton Alamo was absolutely the best Alamo movie ever, not perfect but the best I have seen. The John Wayne movie was so much DRT propaganda.

Billy Bob Thornton's portrayal of David Crockett was better than either the Duke's or Parker's portrayal of Crockett. I suggest reading the Jose Pena's journal of the campaign and battle. There are other documents supporting Pena's version. But it is still somewhat controversial.

I also suggest reading "Texian Iliad: A Military History of the Texas Revolution" by Stephen L. Hardin. It reflects the latest research into the campaign and the Alamo.

Hi Rallynow,
what is DRT short for?
Max

If it is an 'either/or' thing between the Alamo and Waterloo, I think you need to consider the age group you are asking. In Britain at any rate, a lot of people over the age of fifty-ish will remember the John Wayne 'Alamo' film. The whole story was quite well known, along with characters like Bowie and Crockett – wasn't there TV/film stuff about them in the '50s?

Ask anyone younger and most will just look blank. A lot of them will at least know that Waterloo was a battle before it was a railway station and a song.

Leicestershire – Warwickshire what's a small border dispute got to do with this! Ooops

To my shame I always thought that the Alamo was in Mexico, just had a google all about it. It turns out that Davy Crockett isn't fictional either. I had no idea about the history of the conflict despite the fact that there are probably more members of my family living in Texas than here in the UK!

Sir Sidney – I was nearly at the Battle of the Beanfield myself, we had heard that the police were stopping travellers getting to the site but we couldn't get through the Police cordon to help them or document the abuses. Managed to get held in "protective" custody in the back of a Police van though.

The Alamo is so famous it's recognizable from the
Space Shuttle.

In Texas our speed traps are bigger than the Beanfield,
the cops don't beat you they shot you.

Coabeous

Coabeous I highly doubt that in fact the ONLY famous landmark as far as i can tell that's recognizible from the space shuttle is The Great Wall of China.

Also in Texas are you ego's big too?

Captain Gideon

Coabeous, the objective of the Battle of the Beanfield was of far greater antiquity (construction begun around 3100BC) than the Alamo (C18th AD).

;-)

My (Russian, Moscow) choice will go like this:

13-19th century

- Chudskoye Lake (lake Peipus for Europe, 1242)
- Kulikovo field, 1380
- Tannenberg
- Poltava
- Borodino
- Crimea War ( not a battle, but anyway)

20th century –

- Moscow counter- offense
- Stalingrad
- Kursk
- "Bagration"
- Berlin offense

If I have to pick the battles where Russians were not involved ;)…

- Waterloo
- Pavia
- Hastings
- Marathon
- Trafalgar

Also in Texas are you ego's big too?

Big Ego doesn't even begin to describe it. Had a Texan in my unit in the Navy. He had a Longhorns tattoo on one leg, and was going to get their rival school's logo tattooed on upside down with a NO circle through it. They take a lot of things way too seriously in Texas.

I always assumed they were compensating.

Fun facts: If you actually 'iron out' the mountains and count the square footage, *Idaho* is larger than Texas, and the entirety of Texas fits inside the mass of Alaska, not counting the Aleutians or that spur down the length of BC.

I thought the most famous battle was Coral Sea or Midway… (throwing some nitro on the fire here…)

One was a bunch of arrogant militarists trying to make a land grab of foreign soil, for personal profit but under the guise of exporting their revolution, only to be defeated by the forces of justice and order.

The other was … oh wait.

I'm Texan, and I know of both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes our egos are big here. You need them to deal with the people who move here, and then say,"That's not the way we do it in (fill in blank)!"
So somebody tell me about Battle of the Beanfield.

"To my shame I always thought that the Alamo was in Mexico"

Well it was at the time.

The ghost of Thimblerig is upon you, if you say Waterloo.

As to which is more famous, I suppose it depends on your path through military history and films.

As a fall-back position in "Ryan" then the Alamo makes a lot of sense – reference to Waterloo would make no sense.

Rorke's Drift is certainly a good one and for the French I suppose it could be Camerone.