"Alamo or Waterloo? The most famous battle?" Topic

Notwithstanding the failures of the modern education system, which is more famous? Does the word "Waterloo" mean anything to non gamers/armchair historians? In the movie Saving Private Ryan, the main character referred to a fallback position as "the Alamo," without need for explanation. The only popular reference to Waterloo I know of is Doyle's "We have not yet met our Waterloo, Watson, but this is our Marengo, for it begins in defeat and ends in victory."

Coming from San Antonio, I'm sure you can guess which way my vote goes. There's no comparison regarding size of course, since the battle at the Alamo had about 1700 men in the Mexican assault columns, 200-250 in the old mission.

Representing the Euro point of view, it's likely that both will elicit an "eh ?" when asked, but I suppose that Waterloo would still be more recognized.

Waterloo by far in europe.

true, though I believe the French prefer to remember Austerlitz ;-)

YouTube link

Suède: Vingt-quatre points!

Stalingrad ?

Chuey

Growing up as a kid I knew of the Alamo from the Disney Fess Parker movies and John Wayne's Alamo. I knew nothing of Waterloo. So I think it would the Alamo for those of us on this side of the pond.
(I am actually working on my 25mm Alamo figures this week).

Waterloo, except probably in the USA.

We even have a common expression in French "Frapper son Waterloo" (to hit one's Waterloo, i.e. to fail).

27 million Google hits for "Waterloo." 10 TRILLION for "Alamo." HA! Wait… does 10,000,000 equal 10 millon? Shoot.

I think its that dang ABBA song that put Waterloo over the top.

Texan though I am, wouldn't Gettysburg be a better match for Waterloo?

I find most people know of both, but only as slang terms. they have no clue what happened at ether battle except "end of a winning streak" or "hopeless stand" , or that they were even battles, or from what wars, or any other facts about them. unless they have seen a move about them and they still will not know what date they happened.

Sad is it not?

I am from Pennsylvania, and I knew of the Alamo way before I knew anything about Gettysburg.
But as an adult I have been to Gettysburg many times, the Alamo only once. Would love to visit again some time.

In the States, I'm sure it's The Alamo. Or as doc mcb mentioned, Gettysburg might beat both. In Europe, I'm sure it's Waterloo. In other places, it's probably neither.

Waterloo is probably better know because it was an Abba song.

The top 5 from a west european view might just contain..

Waterloo
Getysburg
Hastings
Somme
Stalingrad

Ask a russian or chinaman and i'm sure you'd get a totaly different answer, naming battles we wouldn't even consider.

I'd also have thought if a survey was carried out in the USA the Alamo would be some way down the list. More known in the US could be pearl harbour, little big horn, gettysburg, iwo jima and ardennes 44.

I wonder if you showed a map of the world to US students and asked them to point where the Alamo took place how many would get it right?

The Minnesota state history standard states that children should only know two facts about WWII – Pearl Harbour and the dropping of the atomic bombs.

Waterloo easily as the Alamo wasn't even a battle, it was a siege and a quick storming action.

I'd guess the Alamo, at least in the US and probably partially due to the movie. While waterloo is on film, there wasn't one recently and one is not Disney.

Wiki lists 10 places named after The alamo, all in the states minus 1 thats in Mexico.

Waterloo has 50 places around the world including 31 in the states.

Stonewall Jackson sang about it using both kinds of music, Country and Western.

"Little General Napoleon of France
Tried to conquer the world but lost his pants
Met defeat known as Bonaparte's retreat
And that's when Napoleon met his Waterloo

Waterloo, Waterloo
Where will you meet your Waterloo?"

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

Never mind this thread, come and join us over here:
TMP link

For a Frenchman probably either Waterloo, Austerlitz or Verdun in no particular order

For us English I'd plug for Agincourt then Waterloo with possibly the Somme in 3rd place

For Scots any battle in which they beat the English way ahead of any in which we were on the same side

Some communities/nations have built specific battles or wars into their cultural identities so those would be streets ahead of some scrap on a Belgian field or in a broken down Mexican mission for them.

Ask a Serb about battles and he can probably only name one – and most people won't even have heard of it. The siege of Londonderry won't mean much unless you live in Northern Ireland either, but they are still fighting that one, even today.

For us English I'd plug for Agincourt then Waterloo with possibly the Somme in 3rd place

Nope, you're all looking at this through wargamers/history buffs eyes. The average Joe, or Josephine, would say Hastings. Everybody has heard of 1066 and all that.

Even though we lost. Probably because we lost.

"WE" Lost? That is a bit wierd considering the (white) "we" of today is largely a hybrid of Anglo-Saxon, Viking and those Normans. Meaning the Normans that won Hastings and became the ruling class for the next few hundred years, intermarrying with the locals and eventually being amalgamated, are part of the "we" and the "us" too.

But yes, most non-historian, non-wargamer Joe public types would likely say Hastings and Waterloo. Or Dunkirk and D-Day, depending on the generation. Many teenagers might struggle to think of even that much though.

I asked ten people in the street just now, and eight of them said "Battle of Soissonnais and of the Ourcq", one said "Battle of the Planets" and the other said "THIS IS SPARTA!"

Did you miss this caveat?

Nope, you're all looking at this through wargamers/history buffs eyes.

Not every member of the UK population is a sad geek with their nose buried in Gibbon's 'Decline and Fall'*. Ask 50 'average' people who lost the battle of Hastings and a lot of them will reply 'we did'. The most of the rest will shuffle uneasily and then offer 'the Nazis?' or some such. The remainder will just look blank, such is the state of history being taught in our schools nowadays.

Hang on…

*I've read it already.

I just asked Mrs Sage (representative section of 1), who lost the battle of Hastings?

'Harold?'

Yes, who was he king of?

'The Britons?'

So, there you have it. Scientific proof.

Internationally, Waterloo hands down

Alamo in the US – probably – depending on where you are from (in the extreme northwest they think there were no battles in US history)

Of all those internet hits, how many are for Alamo Car Rental (which might be what many people think of)

I asked ten people in the street just now, and eight of them said "Battle of Soissonnais and of the Ourcq", one said "Battle of the Planets" and the other said "THIS IS SPARTA!"

Do you live in Oxford?

As a native Texan you have to ask?
Alamo. Every son of Texas knows.
Waterloo, an outhouse with running water?

VR
James Mattes
(Just a Plano'd Texan)

Erm, not to be picky, but as I am sure you already know, "Decline and Fall" is about the Roman Empire – not about the Normans and Hastings. But I get what you are saying and do concede your point. :)

Here in Britain Waterloo is rather well known, if only for the train station and the song. I suspect that many might even know it was a battle that involved the Duke of Wellington or/and Napoleon. Maybe. I would suggest that here it is the Alamo that most would struggle to identify. Films or no films. But of all, barring Hastings, battles of World War Two probably have the most recognition in the public mindset: Dunkirk, D-Day, Arnhem, El Alemain. Though only with the older generations, not with the young, who sadly will likely go "huh?" if asked about them.

Scutatus, are you related to our beloved Snorbens?

It was the first title that popped into my head, followed by 'The Conquest of Gaul'…

lol No, no I'm not. :D But I will consider that a compliment. I think. No offence intended in any way Connard Sage. :D I'm not sure I could think up an authorative (famous) book about Hastings off the top of my head either. :)

No offence taken or intended here either.

I've just been informed that 'there's a tapestry about it'.

My wife is not a stupid woman, she's just not very interested in history. Like most people, I guess

Re Rich's "The only popular reference to Waterloo I know of is Doyle's "We have not yet met our Waterloo, Watson, but this is our Marengo, for it begins in defeat and ends in victory.""

He's not an Abba fan then?

I reckon in Britain if you asked a random selection of people in the street to name a famous battle the top result would probably be the Somme.

They may not know anything about it though……

Where is Waterloo? I looked it up and it is a song by some Sweedish or Dutch band. Is it a battle???

No. Its a railway station.

It's a University (where they make fabulous computers)

I just asked Mrs Sage (representative section of 1), who lost the battle of Hastings?

'Harold?'

Yes, who was he king of?

'The Britons?'

So, there you have it. Scientific proof.

But did she vote for him? I sure as heck didn't…

Dave

To the OP, Rich Trevino – did you notice that the 'proof' for your choice consists purely of a scene from an American movie?

The Alamo cause it's in "Texas by Gawd!"

BTW what's an ABBA?

Coabeous

HMMM Fess Parker fans will say Alamo. Rod Steiger fans will say Waterloo.

School children in New York will say "HUH ?"

The Alamo, of course.

Hands down it's WATERLOO and yes i'm a BIG fan of this movie,but i'm also a fan of The Alamo with John Wayne.

And like what has been already said Waterloo was a MAJOR BATTLE,whereas The Alamo was a siege which lasted 13 days but it ended quick.

I'm an American but for me it's Waterloo all the way as the most famous Battle.

Captain Gideon

Not to offend, but I guarantee that very few people in these here parts (Houston, Texas -- about two hours from the Alamo) have even heard of the battle of Hastings. I studied it in college (and probably grade school, or at least high school), but must admit that if it weren't for refreshers from the History Channel, I wouldn't remember any details about it.

History has been replaced by social studies, much to the detriment of modern society. We have lost our collective history and that has undermined our collective identity.

I reckon in Britain if you asked a random selection of people in the street to name a famous battle the top result would probably be the Somme.

In England these days? More likely to be Khartoum.

Well there has been two top ten songs refering to waterloo in the title in the past 50 years. (ABBA and the Kinks) On the other hand I know of at least two movies for Alamo and only one for Waterloo. (Boy wasn't that John Wayne one a turkey) That puts Waterloo in front by a nose. :oP
Max