"28mm vehicle scale - a compromise" Topic

If we were to concede that 1/56 scale is accurate for the height of a typical 28mm model, then surely we must also account for the width of the typical 28mm model. This is roughly twice the actual width proportionately to a real human being, so this is what I propose.

Please, stop making your vehicles for use with 28mm models strictly 1/56 scale. This is just off. You should start making them 1/56 scale in height only. In width and depth, you should start making them 1/28 scale. Then it should look alright with my toy soldiers.

Get crackin'!

I just use 1/43rd and 1/48th scale vehicles. The width is about right and given the added height the standard slotted base provides, the head cover works out about right.

And I'll complain that if you use a 1/43rd scale kubelwagen next to 28mm they look like kids and need to stand on their toes to peek inside …

It's been debated to death. There is enough choice in 1/48th or even 1/35th if that strikes your fancy and don't get all worked up about people using 1/56th models, they are entitled to their opinion last time I checked.

Gentlemen, please. This is why we need a true 28mm scale and I believe my solution provides just that.

Then commission a line of WWII figures in the scale you've described, promote and advertise it as such and and let the market provide you with feedback as to whether or not such a thing is "needed".

If said scale is "needed", you'll make money. If not, you won't. It's elegantly simple, and damn near foolproof.

I should also like to add that this should also apply to the gun barrels and all items of attached kit.

Are there 1/56 metal flat figures for WW2? They might meet your aesthetic requirements.

Or just use 28mm figures as is and rationalise that the front line fighting troops are getting the best and most rations.

Yeah, and stop using slotted bases.

I want some of what Caesar is smoking ;-)

I don't! It obviously causes seriously bad trips.

Vehicle makers are scale straight line model makers. We use plan drawings and numerous photographic references to create 3D representations of real vehicles. We operate like machines.
Don't blame us, it is all the figure sculptors who are bonkers.

Yeah it's the sculptors that are bonkers!. But only from hanging around vehicle designers that have been around Poly cement too long.

In regards to barrels. Many companies make weapons larger so they will cast a lot easier. This will reduce the amount of miscasts and improve customer service. If you started a company producing fine scale weapons you better start charging a whole lot more for your figures.

Paul

Caesar, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who beats up on 28mm. Have you seen my article on a similar subject? link
--
Tim

"Yeah, and stop using slotted bases."

I use slotted-nothing! Slots lead to naughty thoughts.

A proper 28mm barrel should be 1/56 scale in height, but 1/28 scale in width and length. This should produce an aesthetically pleasing barrel of unusual length with appropriate oval shape. We should also start thinking in these terms regarding terrain.

Vehicle sculptors are the ones who started this 1/56 scale business and they should be the ones to properly address the situation. A job half-done is not done at all.

Tim, you are onto something there, but your proportions are a bit off!

Slots lead to naughty thoughts.

What about gun barrels? Long, thick gun barrels that shot forth their heavy load and then recoil violently. Perhaps vehicles would be best done without any guns to protect the innocent minds.

OTOH, the ever-brilliant US military already developed their solution to the 28mm vehicle scaling issues back in the 70's. Please let me introduce Mr Sheridan:

picture
picture
picture
link

"What about gun barrels? Long, thick gun barrels that shot forth their heavy load and then recoil violently."

Only if they have muzzle breaks to complete the image.

Some are trying. Here we have a 1/56 scale vehicle with a 1/28 scale machinegun.
link

In fact, you'll find that kind of inconsistency in all 1/56 scale gaming models, which shows how conflicted these guys are to do things the right way. You are trying, but now I've told you how to go about it.

1/28 is not 28mm. 28mm is foot to eye measurement.
If we make 1/56th scale weapons for the vehicles and the figure sculptor's weapons don't match, customers would be unhappy.
The best option is Tamiya 1/48th if you want scale figures and vehicles. The figures are dull, and the vehicles are fragile to handle, but everything is compatible.
The idea of wargames companies making vehicles is to complement their figures, and because of the smaller production runs than the plastic kit makers, we can look at more unusual vehicles. The limited finances mean that we have to avoid wastage with miscasts, as Paul has already stated. I started making my own vehicles as I wasn't satisfied with what was available. That is always an option.

"1/28 is not 28mm. 28mm is foot to eye measurement."

When you buy a suit does the tailor only measure the height to your eyes?

The premise of using 1/28 for width and depth come from the assumption that we accept 1/56 as our standard for height and then adjust width and depth for the expanded proportions of the models. 1/28 is twice as large as 1/56, therefore this is an acceptable scale for width and depth.

Of course, the customers should complain if you provide a 1/56 scale weapon. But the thing is, we need to maintain a balance of proportion and I applaud the efforts thus far, but it just needs to be taken that one step further…

We took a long hard look at this when we started making vehicles for 28mm figures. We were concentrating on the WW1/interwar period at the time and looked at a whole range of figures including Copplestone, Renegade and Pulp. We found that whilst there was some variation between them, generally the best match in terms of one of the standard vehicle sizes was 1/48th. To do this we looked at a whole raft of original photographs of the vehicles with people stood beside them and also went to various museums and measured the things. We still believe that for most of the WW1/interwar ranges including the ones released since we started such as Great War miniatures, 1/48th provies the best scale comparison for 28mm.

However we later branched out into modern vehicles and again went to look at the ranges available that we were interested in producing vehciles for – primarily Mongrel and MoFo. In this case it was clear that they were slightly smaller in stature – perhaps a true 28mm – and as a result through the same process we found that 1/56th vehicles were a better fit.

So the answer really is it all depends on which range of figures you want your vehicles for. It is sadly the case as was pointed out higher up the thread that whilst straight line designers tend to work very closely to specific scales – because you cannot get away with being wrong on something like a wheel base – figure designers have a lot more leeway and so we see much more variation within a single '28mm' scale.

Tricks

Sloppy Jalopy

I've just skimmed this thread but I think the point that 1/56 and 1/28 are direct ratios in, "INCHES", you know that old archaic Imperial system of measure, has been missed by some….

Multiply 56 or 28 inches by 25.4mm and then try working it out….

Length, width, and height are measured accordingly to produce a scaled down version of the real item. Why would you take the length and scale it to 1/56 then take the width and height and make it twice the size in 1/28…..

Take a cube that is 56" x 56" x 56" scale it to 1/56 you now have a cube that is 1" x 1" x 1", correct, right? Mix the ratios now the cube would be 1" x 2" x 2" right? So it's no longer a cube nor an accurate representation of the actual cube…. What's the point behind that???

You can't equate figure proportions with the scale of a vehicle….

To early in the morning for this… more coffee required…. Cups hands in face, shakes head…..

Ok I've had more coffee now…. Using this new formula for 28mm aka 1/56 & 1/28 scale… mixture, I'm 6'1" tall we'll scale that to 1/28. My width, I'm assuming my waste size to 1/28, and length, finger tip to finger tip to 1/56, at these proportions I believe my wife would most likely find a reason to leave me…

Just what we need ,more variations of what is a 28mm figure and what scale matches it .

"Mix the ratios now the cube would be 1" x 2" x 2" right? So it's no longer a cube nor an accurate representation of the actual cube…"

As long as my 28mm dudes are considered accurate representations of humans in my tabletop universe, a 1x2x2 unit geometrical shape can be a cube.

"What's the point behind that???"

Consistency. Let's be consistent, if nothing else.

Ok Caesar you win. Now YOU go to all the figure sculptors and manufacturers and get them all to agree on a standardized size for height, body proportions, personal gear, weapons, etc…. Get them all to give up their personal sculpting styles…. and I'll just stick to measuring and building in one scale…..

Okay, to each his own. But can you please stop putting 1/28 scale weapons and equipment on your 1/56 scale vehicles?

ahhhhh have you ever measured anything and done the conversion math…….

No need to. Photographic evidence and the to-scale weapons and equipment offered in other scales as comparison are enough for me. A 1/48 scale machinegun should not be smaller than a 1/56 scale one.

I love the current 28mm figs. Nothing better than Stalingrad Germans who look as though they have been dining at Golden Corral.