"New "Bowery Kids" minis from Bob Murch" Topic

Bob just announced that two new sets will be added to his line and two minis from each set are up at his site. One of the sets will be the "Bowery Kids" which I've been asking for for a long time. The two that have been produced are *very* much is the spirit of the "East Side Kids" films of the 1930's and '40's. I supplied Bob with several scans of lobby posters and stills from my collection to help with the sculpts and from what I can see he made good use of them. The second set is of Evil Gestapo Officers which also look very good. In fact, in a message that I just sent to Bob I mentioned that one of them looks like the officer in the Republic serial "Spy Smasher". (-:

Here's a link:

link

I guess I'm due for another transaction with Mr Murch this year-gotta rebuild the finances first though. Great work (as always)

Great stuff! Although I must say that the Bowery Boys are a bit on the obscure side. But that is how Murch does things. The models look nice but should the great coat German be wearing a tie??? He looks like a basic trooper. I don't think they wore ties just the tunic buttoned to the top. I loved the Bowery Boys BTW.

Combatpainter

These minis don't actually represent the "Bowery Boys". At least not the two that have been completed. They look like the type of kids that would have been in the "East Side Kids" or "Dead End Kids" films, and I wouldn't consider those two groups obscure for those that are interested in "pulp" gaming. In fact, I would think that anyone that's actually interested in the "pulp era" would be *very* aware of the "East Side Kids" and "Dead End Kids" films, after all, the "Dead End Kids" were featured in two of the most famous gangster/social dramas of the 1930's, "Dead End" with Humphrey Bogart and Joel McCrea, and "Angels With Dirty Faces" with Humphrey Bogart, Pat O'Brien and James Cagney. The "Dead End Kids" were also featured in films that starred Ronald Reagan, Ann Sheridan, John Garfield and Claude Raines. The "East Side Kids", which included some of the ex-"Dead End Kids" did two films with Bela Lugosi and many of the plots to their movies involved gangsters or saboteurs and spies as they were filmed during the early 1940's. In any case, I'm glad that Bob decided to do minis that represent any of several different "kid gangs", like the "Dead End Kids", "East Side Kids", "Little Tough Guys", and the "Gas House Gang" of the 1930's and 1940's rather than the "Bowery Boys" from the late 1940's to the mid 1950's as the "Bowery Boys" would have been a bit late for "pulp" gaming scenarios.

Great news!

Mulligan

I finally got around to seeing "They Made Me a Criminal" a few weeks ago (the Garfield, Sheridan, Raines picture the Shadow mentioned).

See the whole story here
link

Very interesting developments from the Dead End Kids to the Bowery Boys.

Thanks to Lamont for pointing out the differences.

>>Thanks to Lamont for pointing out the differences.<<

LOL. You're welcome.

Yeah. There's a *very* big difference between the groups. The first few "Dead End Kids" movies were Warner Brothers "social dramas" where the kids were seen as tough juvenile delinquents who are a product of their environment. They weren't comedies at all. In two of them one of the boys dies and in one of them the leader of the gang goes off to jail at the end. They were feature length and starred some of the biggest names in Hollywood of the period.

Here are three "Dead End Kids" trailer on Youtube:

YouTube link

As opposed to the "Bowery Boys" films, especially the latter ones, which were straight comedies and never more than 60-65 minute "B" movies.

Here's a trailer on Youtube:

YouTube link

The "East Side Kids" were a combination of action, social drama and comedy. They were very well known in New York City where I grew up as the "East Side Kids" were shown almost every weekend on TV on one channel or another throughout the 1950's and 60's. Of those three groups they offer the best fodder for "pulp" games IMHO, as they were always fighting gangsters and spies. I can see a scenario involving them from "Let's Get Tough.

Here's a clip from "Bowery Blitzkrieg" on Youtube:

YouTube link

I think you are being very kind to consider the "Bowery Boys" films as B pictures! LOL!! Monogram never had it so good!!! Of course, when no one's watching, I'll pop a few in the DVD player on a rainy saturday afternoon.

Let's all meet at Louie's malt shop and hoist a few!

>>I think you are being very kind to consider the "Bowery Boys" films as B pictures! LOL!! Monogram never had it so good!!!<<

When I say "B Movies" I mean as the term was originally used, which is to mean a film specifically produced for the bottom half of a "double bill". The top billed "feature film" being the top, or "A" half of the billing.

I was never a big fan of the "Bowery Boys" flicks. I liked a few that were released in the late 40's as they seemed to be a "grown up" continuation of the "East Side Kids" flicks, but by the mid 1950's they were comedies that I didn't think were particularly funny. IMHO, Leo Gorcey had become a bloated buffoon and Huntz Hall was just moronic.

In the early 1940's Monogram was a *very* low budget studio, but the "East Side Kids" flicks were very popular in New York City and I assume that they probably did OK in other large cities as well. Gorcey and Bobby Jordan always seemed to take their parts seriously during that period, and Hall and Sunshine Sammy Morrison were pretty funny too. Some were much better than others. I enjoyed "Boys of the City" and "Spooks Run Wild" much more than "Block Busters" and "Docks Of New York". I guess they were kind of hit and miss depending on who else was in the movie with them and whether someone bothered to write a decent script. Lugosi being in two of the ESK films helped them quite a bit.

BTW, of the two Murch figures I think the kid wearing the cap with his hands in his pockets would make a great "Scruno" if painted "Black".

The Shadow wrote:

"IMHO, Leo Gorcey had become a bloated buffoon and Huntz Hall was just moronic."

Wasn't that the point of the enterprise : )

I think the Boys will make great adversaries for the followers of great Cthululu…

Routine 12! ;^)

It's Bowery Beowulf when Huntz Hall learns the truth about his uncle Bilbo's magic ring.

>>>"IMHO, Leo Gorcey had become a bloated buffoon and Huntz Hall was just moronic."<<<

>Wasn't that the point of the enterprise : <

At what point in the "enterprise"? The "Bowery Boys" series of films with Leo Gorcey and Huntz Hall ran from 1946 until 1956 when Gorcey left. It continued for two more years with Stanley Clements replacing Gorcey. That's 13 years. For the first few years, malaprops like "I regurgitate that statement" aside, Gorcey played the role in a relatively serious fashion. Some of the films, like "Angels in Disguise" (1949), actually had some decent dialogue and Gorcey came off as tough and smart. The rest of the gang had some dialogue too, giving Billy Benedict and the others something to do beside stand there and say "right, chief!". Over the next few years it was a slow shift to the Gorcey and Hall show with the other "boys" doing practically nothing. Then Hall got more and more bits where Gorcey wasn't even in the scene. By '56 Gorcey was a bloated mess due to alcohol and in "Crashing Las Vegas" he did practically nothing. As far as I'm concerned, by that time the series was a shambles and only a ghost of what it once was.

>>I think the Boys will make great adversaries for the followers of great Cthululu…<<

I think that's a great idea! In fact, any scenario where the "kids" have to get into cowls and robes would work great! In the film "Let's Get Tough" the "East Side Kids" infiltrate a meeting of the "Black Dragon Society" by donning cowled robes that they take from spies that they've knocked out. Use your Murch Pulp cultist figures or Brigade's cultists for these. I can see a scenario where several things are going on at once. The "kids" have to knock out a couple of spies to get their ID's and sneak into the meeting. Meanwhile, at a nearby section of the table Danny's brother "Knuckles" and a couple of cops are looking for Danny, Muggs and the gang. They can be waylaid by other spies in cahoots with gangsters that are being paid off by the spies. So there you have four factions: The "kids", spies in cowled robes, gangsters, and another group of spies. Whichever set of rules that you use (".45A" or "Astounding tales" would work perfectly) you would have to give the "kids" higher close combat values to vanquish spies with possible pistols. The "kids" don't use guns, but can certainly use a baseball bat, club, moose head, or handy spitoon as a weapon. Or if Muggs or Danny can wrestle a gun from a spies hand the spy must automatically surrender, as the spies are cowardly yellow rats! (-:

I hadn't thought of using the "kids" minis vs. Cthululu cultists, but why not? They did several "old dark house" type flicks. In fact, why not have them "Meet the Monsters"? (-:

Good to see Gestapo Officers. I was needing another evil German.

"Old Dark House" comedies are my favorite.

Now we need figures for Kay Kyser, Ish and the College of Musical Knowledge…vs. Lorre, Lugosi and Karloff!

>>Now we need figures for Kay Kyser, Ish and the College of Musical Knowledge…vs. Lorre, Lugosi and Karloff!<<

"You'll Find Out". I haven't seen that one in ages and I don't have it in my collection.

I'm a fan of those comedies too. Among others, "The Ghost Breakers" with Bob Hope and Paulette Goddard, which was later made as "Scared Stiff" with Martin and Lewis. "Hold That Ghost" with Abbott and Costello, "The Living Ghost" with James Dunn and Joan Woodbury, and "King of the Zombies" with Mantan Moreland.

Another vote for Kay Kyser's Kollege of musical kanowledge, probably the best sweet band of the fourties. Lets not get started on the best swing band.

Where else (outside of TCM) could Sunshine Sammy and Ish Kabibble be brought up in the same thread!!

>>Another vote for Kay Kyser's Kollege of musical kanowledge, probably the best sweet band of the fourties.<<

Speaking of "swing" and staying with the "kids" topic, here's "Muggs", "Danny" and "Glimpy" of the "Eastside Kids" cutting a rug on youtube. Never mind the first minute or so where they speed up the clip for no reason that I can figure. They go into the same clip at normal speed later:

YouTube link

It's funny, with the "kids" in suits it's like a preview of what their going to look like as the "Bowery Boys" three years later.

>>Lets not get started on the best swing band.<<

The Benny Goodman Sextet with Goodman on the clarinet and featuring Harry James on trumpet and Gene krupa on drums doing "Sing Sing Sing" at the January 16th 1938 concert at Carnegie Hall. It's one of my favorite pieces of music of any kind ever performed. It's just electrifying. When the drum solo with Krupa begins it sends shivers up my spine every time (-:

>>Where else (outside of TCM) could Sunshine Sammy and Ish Kabibble be brought up in the same thread!!<<

Amen…right on…and don't forget Mantan Moreland too! (-:

What "kids" from film are all you guys talking about?

Dan

Oh. I see.

link

Dan

The Benny Goodman Sextet with Goodman on the clarinet and featuring Harry James on trumpet and Gene krupa on drums doing "Sing Sing Sing" at the January 16th 1938 concert at Carnegie Hall. It's one of my favorite pieces of music of any kind ever performed. It's just electrifying. When the drum solo with Krupa begins it sends shivers up my spine every time (-:

That is one VERY solid piece of music Jackson, and the Carnegie Hall Goodman band was Benny's best by his own admission. But he played against Chick Webb at the Savoy with that band in a cutting contest. The jury is still out.

>>What "kids" from film are all you guys talking about?<<

We're talking about "pulp" era tough kid gang films in general. There were several films in that genre that weren't part of a series like the "Dead End Kids" and "East Side Kids" that would be interesting to "pulp" era film fans as well. "Wild Boys of the Road", (1933)which was about the scores of depression era boys that took to riding the rails as hobos rather than be a financial burden on their families, and "Boy Slaves" (1939)which was about the exploitation of kids working in rural "labor camps" in the 1930's.

I understand that there was also a film titled "Take My Life" starring the "Harlem Tuff Kids" which was a Black version of the "East Side Kids", but I haven't seen it and don't know where to locate a copy.

For serial fans there were three chapter plays featuring the "Dead End Kids"; "Junior G-Men", "Junior G-Men of the Air", and "Sea Raiders". I would only recommend "Junior G-Men" though. "Junior G-Men of the Air" was just passable and "Sea Raiders" was awful! For serials of this type I definitely recommend "Adventures of the Flying cadets".

So we have plenty of fictional material for use in creating scenarios for the new Murch Pulp "Bowery Kids" minis. (-:

In addition to the movies and serials, there were the Golden Age "Boy Commandos" comic books of WWII by Simon and Kirby. In my comic book collection, I have a copy of the "Boy Commandos" D-Day issue with the Boy Commandos storming ashore at Normandy to give Uncle Adolf a poke in de eye. I suspect it would be easy enough to kit-bash some of the upcoming Pulp Figures kid gang figures into Boy Commandos (or at least the stand-up little guy "Brooklyn") by giving them tommy guns and grenades from spare WWII figures.

Carter "Take dat, ya' Ratzies!" Mulligan

Now all we need are some Not-Blackhawks and a Not-Airboy.

>>In addition to the movies and serials, there were the Golden Age "Boy Commandos" comic books of WWII by Simon and Kirby.<<

Right Mully. And the 1940's-50's "Daredevil" featured "The Little Wise Guys".

I'm definitely all for a full group of seven "Blackhawks".

Oh yeah! I forgot about the "Tough Kid Squad" comic book published by Timely in 1942 and "The Newsboy Legion" from "Suicide Slum" by Simon and Kirby in "Star Spangled Comics" dring the 1940's.

Shadow:

I'd never heard of the "Tough Kid Squad." I'm marginally familiar with "The Newsboy Legion." I can't remember whether there was at some point some crossover between the Newsboy Legion and the Boy Commandos. It seems to me there was, but I may be misremembering, or there may have been a later (Silver Age revival) crossover. I believe the Newsboy Legion became sort of the back-up band for The Shield. Simon and Kirby were all over the place (and all over the map) during those years.

Mulligan

(Speaking of pugnacious younguns, I'm reworking my sculpt of a German supervillain for SuperSystem, "The Hitler Youth," since I figured it's about time the Germans had their own version of a boy sidekick in comic book games.)

Oops!

Quick correction. The Newsboy Legion became a sort of collective sidekick for The Guardian, who carried a badge-shaped shield.

Mulligan

>>I'd never heard of the "Tough Kid Squad."<<

I'm not sure if they appeared in any other comic book beside their own title, and I'm only aware of one issue numbered (duh!) number one. (-: It's a pretty scarce comic.

>>I'm marginally familiar with "The Newsboy Legion." I can't remember whether there was at some point some crossover between the Newsboy Legion and the Boy Commandos. It seems to me there was, but I may be misremembering, or there may have been a later (Silver Age revival) crossover.<<

Crossovers were unusual at National in the "golden age" unless the characters were originally conceived to be in the same book, as in the "Justice Society" and "Seven Soldiers of Victory" stories. Even "World's Finest" which featured "Batman" and "Superman" didn't include both characters in the same stories until the 1950's, so I'd be surprised to see a "golden age" issue with a "Newsboy Legion" and "Boy Commandos" crossover. I don't know much about the "silver age" as I stopped reading comics in the mid 1950's when EC comics disappeared.

>>I believe the Newsboy Legion became sort of the back-up band for The Shield.<<

That was "The Guardian". "The Shield" was in "Pep Comics" from MLJ. (-:

>>Simon and Kirby were all over the place (and all over the map) during those years.<<

Boy, I'll say. LOL

Right on all counts, Shadow. (See my quick correction above re The Shield vs The Guardian, made while my earlier posting was still cooling.) As a little bit of clarification, when I was talking about Golden Age and crossovers, I was thinking in terms of stories told in the spirit of the original comics or set during the 1940s, but which may have actually come out during the Silver Age, not necessarily stories that were actually originally published during the Golden Age: basically retro or ret-conned stories with a Golden Age sensibility, if that makes sense. Timely/Marvel, of course had its famous actual Golden Age crossovers involving The Human Torch and the SubMariner, which were the genesis for the ultimate WWII retro comic, Roy Thomas's The Invaders, in the early to mid-1970s. (My WWII comic book superhero SuperSystem games have all revolved around various incarnations of The Invaders.) I was always surprised that National/DC didn't have its characters crossover nearly as much during the early days.

Mulligan

>>I was always surprised that National/DC didn't have its characters crossover nearly as much during the early days.<<

The National probably didn't think that it was necessary, as they already had the teams like "Justice Society" in "All Star Comics" and the "Seven Soldiers of Victory" in Leading Comics" going. Timely had their own team too as the "All Winners Squad" in "All Winners". Oddly, though "Police Comics" from Quality frequently showed both "The Spirit" and "Plastic Man" on the cover they never appeared in a story together. BTW, Quality was my favorite publisher during the "Golden Age" with Lou Fine, Will Eisner and Jack Cole among many others in the "bull pen".

Definitely hard to beat the Quality bullpen for sheer exuberant artistic talent and elegant layouts. I'd have to add a definite shoutout for Reed Crandall, one of the finest penmasters of them all.

Carter "Four-Color" Mulligan

>>Definitely hard to beat the Quality bullpen for sheer exuberant artistic talent and elegant layouts. I'd have to add a definite shoutout for Reed Crandall, one of the finest penmasters of them all.<<

Yep. Bob Powell and Bill Ward were also with Quality. Ward did a pretty good "Blackhawk" too, not to mention "Torchy".

Mulligan wrote:

I'd never heard of the "Tough Kid Squad." I'm marginally familiar with "The Newsboy Legion." I can't remember whether there was at some point some crossover between the Newsboy Legion and the Boy Commandos. It seems to me there was, but I may be misremembering, or there may have been a later (Silver Age revival) crossover.

The Shadow added:

Crossovers were unusual at National in the "golden age" unless the characters were originally conceived to be in the same book, as in the "Justice Society" and "Seven Soldiers of Victory" stories. Even "World's Finest" which featured "Batman" and "Superman" didn't include both characters in the same stories until the 1950's, so I'd be surprised to see a "golden age" issue with a "Newsboy Legion" and "Boy Commandos" crossover.

The two kid teams appeared in the same story in Detective Comics 76, called "The Invasion of America" by Simon and Kirby. The issue was published in 1943, but that tale might be included in a DC hardcover collection of the Simon/Kirby Boy Commandos stories: link

Mulligan wrote:

I was always surprised that National/DC didn't have its characters crossover nearly as much during the early days.

The Shadow noted:

The National probably didn't think that it was necessary, as they already had the teams like "Justice Society" in "All Star Comics" and the "Seven Soldiers of Victory" in Leading Comics" going. Timely had their own team too as the "All Winners Squad" in "All Winners". Oddly, though "Police Comics" from Quality frequently showed both "The Spirit" and "Plastic Man" on the cover they never appeared in a story together.

In the early 1940s, what people now think of as DC Comics was actually two comic companies: National (which published Superman and Batman) and All American (which published the Flash, Green lantern, and Wonder Woman). The two companies shared a business partner and a distribution system, and All Star Comics (the comic featuring the Justice Society of America [JSA]) was an unique experiment between the two, placing their characters together in the same book years before the two companies merged. The changes in the relationship between the two companies until they merged was one of the reasons why the membership of the JSA changed from time to time.

Within the companies, each editor had control of certain groups of characters, and that control could also limit opportunities for crossovers. No doubt there were other factors not widely reported.

The Spirit wasn't owned by Quality, although they published his stories in comic book format for a time, so team ups with the character was unlikely.

>>The Spirit wasn't owned by Quality, although they published his stories in comic book format for a time, so team ups with the character was unlikely.<<

I don't think that the type of story that "The Spirit" appeared in would be enhanced by a cross over from another character anyway.

I forgot to note that "The Dead End Kids" appeared in three issues of "The Shadow" comics in 1940.

>>The two kid teams appeared in the same story in Detective Comics 76, called "The Invasion of America" by Simon and Kirby. The issue was published in 1943, but that tale might be included in a DC hardcover collection of the Simon/Kirby Boy Commandos stories.<<

Looks like you were right Mully. (-: Looks interesting. I'll have to check out the hardcover when it's released.

For those who are interested, Turner Classic Movies is airing "The Bowery Boys" films on Saturday mornings at 10:30 EST. They began two weeks ago with "Live Wires" and ran "In Fast Company" last week. Tomorrow's morning's schedule shows "Bowery Bombshell". I looked at the schedule for April and May and it looks like the last film in the series that they are going show is on May 22nd, but until that time the films will be in order of release. IMHO the "Bowery Boys" flicks started to go down hill in the 1950's, but these are the better ones from the late 1940's.

Thanks Shadow!

BTW picked up "You'll Find Out" as part of Karloff/Lugosi two disc set. It's a nice print of the film and worth watching.

link