"Why are there hardly any French wargamers? " Topic

I know there are a few, but they just don't seem to exist.

Try this if you're interested:

figoblogotheque.blogspot.com

It's a French blog of blogs site, with a column for English language blogs, one for French, and a third for others. A useful resource. Of course, most are for warhammer type gamers, but there are some really good historical blogs on there.

It's a starting point at least.

I have come across quite a few however and without sounding jingoistic (and a hypocritical Brit) they seem less likely to converse on world wide forums which are in the main English.

I would take as an ideal example of this, the Lead Adventure Forum which really is a world community run by a German but it is all in English

Interesting, they must exist in the Napoleonic period at least because they had the coolest team.

Perhaps it is just the language thang.

try this jeudhistoire.free.fr/index.php probably the biggest French wargames forum

Lol, 4th Cuirassier :-) Actually I am French and quite bored by nappy porn ;-)

Actually, I also wanted to ask the same question, in reverse : why so many wargamers in the UK? Despite some US, Australian and Canadian brands, the UK is somewhat the main producer for this hobby.

One of the big french forum for wargaming is jeudhistoire.free.fr

It is quite active, and if you look at the miniature paintings done every month (here for March link ), you'll notice french wargamers are quite productive.

There is also a very fine french wargame magazine called Vae Victis.

But why can't we find more french brands for the market is a mystery. Maybe because France had no H.G. Wells?

The Dawghouse prevents me from fully answering this question. French history should be enough of an answer.

They are le tired.
-Kle.

There are plenty of them. We have loads of French customers.

"The Dawghouse prevents me from fully answering this question. French history should be enough of an answer."

Wow, let the French bashing begin, Mr. Elmo. What else have they done wrong? If you don't have something to contribute to this thread in order to seriously answer the question, then do not post.

One reason there are so many gamers in the UK is geography. Compared to the US, Canada and Australia, the UK is very small. If you'll drive, say, 4 hours to attend a show, there are probably very few you can't reach.

I routinely have to drive 8-12 hours to attend the bigger East coast shows.

Doesn't explain why (if) fewer French gamers, but again the forums and all the rules are all in English…

Regards,

Mark Severin
Scale Creep Miniatures

Actually, I also wanted to ask the same question, in reverse : why so many wargamers in the UK?

I read an onld wargaming pamphlet just this week. KTG Wargaming, printed in 1976, says:

"The first form of 'Wargaming' in Britain and 'Miniatures Gaming' in America……comes about because the first commercial companies to produce rules, handbooks and playing equipment for miniatures enthusiasts on a really large scale were British based…."

He goes on to say that it is bigger in the UK than the US because the American effort was aimed at producing board games which were more popular than miniatures games across the pond.

Simply put, there are more UK players because we started the hobby as a full blown hobby. Before anyone jumps in with 'Little Wars' by HGW, his game involved shooting match sticks at figures, which, IMHO, does not rate as 'proper' dice, measure, and 'rule driven' wargaming.

"Actually, I also wanted to ask the same question, in reverse : why so many wargamers in the UK?"

Good forward planning – its actually covert training to help us survive the coming collapse of civilisation and the rise of the local militia :)

I always thought there were a proportionate number. We have a few French gamers even here in Japan, and Vae Victis is a great wargaming magazine, produced in France.

Well our club of 8 members in Ireland has five Irish, one from Northern Ireland, one Englishman and one Frenchman.

So it would seem the French get everywhere to play a game!

There are plenty of them. We have loads of French customers.

Same here and when we attended the Festival International des Jeux in Cannes as traders, we certainly didn't notice any absence of French wargamers – quite the contrary.

I find that there has been a marked increase in orders from France over the last 10 years and there is also a lot of excellent product being designed and produced there. Mainly fantasy and sf but wargaming noetheless.

Doug

There was a French gamer at a shop in Canton,Ohio at one point,who gamed with his son.America being what it is,they could speak to each other and their opponents had no idea what they were going to do.

When I was in Paris a number of years ago, I recall randomly stumbling upon two wargaming/miniatures shops, although I don't recall their names any more. Both seemed to be quite busy, and the staff and other customers were quite friendly. The second one was actually the first place I ever saw a GW game in progress! Sadly, my girlfriend at the time had a huge issue with wargaming and threw such a fit that I left the shop out of embarassment.

Really glad I dumped her.

Yep, my sister came back from Paris about three months ago and said the same thing, she found gaming shops fairly easily. She's not a gamer, so doesn't know DBA from MonPoc, but she knows what a game store is. She said both were full, and the bulk were playing a "fantasy game". Both places were also comic book shops as well.

There's a number of French companies producing high-quality fantasy and sci-fi miniatures and games. We have a couple French customers as well. Hopefully we'll have more when our French Marines come out.

Best,
Steve
Cavalcade Wargames
cavalcadewargames.com

If you don't have something to contribute to this thread

Satire and humor are contributions. Their value being in the mind of the humble reader.

There is a strong tradition of SCI-Fi and fantasy in France starting with film classics such as "Barbarella." I suspect that it constitutes the bulk of wargaming in France as it does in the Anglophone world.

I think that beyond any slurs on martial history, it is true that the continent would be a naturally tougher market for war related hobbies. Other than aerial bombardment, none of the English speaking world has ever had their homes and towns overrun in a modern war, and their citizens sent to camps or prisons. It makes it somewhat easier to have an enthusiastic interest in a war history hobby.

In fact, Germany had for many years restrictions on the sale of toys and scale models that represented WWII Nazi units or equipment.

In truth, however, the wargame hobby is represented well in France, Germany, and the world's largest game/wargame gathering occurs every year in Italy! A number of the more recent Wargame rules and publications come out of Italy as well.

Americans, who are largely mono-lingual, and because of our isolation, seem to be particularly prone to historical interpretation and gaming solely from an English Language perspective. We invite over Featherstone, Duffy et al, for their views, but seldom have other continental voices in to be heard.
(Whether there's a Frenchman alive who would WANT to go to Valley Forge is debatable.)

I think the question that started this thread in itself shows the Anglo-centrism of the hobby. That also affects our rules and perceptions of many wars and battles. It doesn't make anybody a "bad" person, but I've often wondered how we can believe to have an accurate and balanced understanding of the Napoleonic period, or any of the various continental wars, if we're limited to English sources, or a few more popular translations.

It might also be pointed out that the two countries where wargaming has the most participants have been in more of their share of wars than most in the last few hundred years. Maybe we are just a more belligerent bunch! The Black Prince's descendants, English soccer fans, seem to still be widely feared on the continent.

Seems to me there is a rather large French GW gamer society, and judging by the "Golden Daemon" painting entires, a very vibrant painting community! I love to see the French and Italian entries, as their conception and execution is so different from North American and UK entries.

Thanks folks, it did seem a bit odd but obviously there is a bit of French wargaming out there. And so there should be!

L'Empereur recompensera le premier qui avencera and all that.

Sorry Elmo, you are simply in bad taste, The French don't even deserve the supposedly demeaning funny rep I assume you are alluding to, since you are worried about the Dawghouse.

You said check their history: Well, their history actually demonstrates that
a) they were winners more often than losers and
b) even when they were defeated or/and occupied they did not quit and continued the struggle where they could (despite the jokes-that-aren't-jokes that suggest otherwise)
and c)the number of wars they fought, they should have more wargamers not less, if "number of wars fought" is at all relevant. So I am surprised that Britain has seemingly more, quite frankly. I can't explain that. Maybe they are just tired of war – so many of their wars were fought on their own soil, and the 20th century in particular wasn't kind to them after all.

That said, only the ignorant or the stupid think putting down the French for their war record is a) accurate or b) funny.

Let's fight the next war in YOUR back yard and home town streets, with your sisters and daughters at the enemy's mercy and (in the 20th century at least) your houses and industry flattened by your own allies' bombers, and see how well YOU do.

Personally I think they are a remarkeable nation, to keep on bouncing back, no matter what.

Perhaps we could take a look in at a French language forum and ask why there are so few British, Americans and upsaide down wargamers hanging out there.

There seems to be plenty of French wargame activity on the web so I don't think there is a small number at all.

Well this turned septic rather quickly – no surprises – and therein lies the answer to the original question. Perhaps.

I like the French. Splendid people, and independently minded too. I haven't met any French wargamers myself, but I suspect that is because I haven't actively sought any. If we do move there permanently, as we plan to, I may have more to report. If they are as scarce as everyone assumes, then I shall need another hobby. :)

(Whether there's a Frenchman alive who would WANT to go to Valley Forge is debatable.)

I only have a French last name and I don't want to go!

I subscribe to French language magazines Vae Victus and Tradition (via On Military Matters) and from what I can see and read, there appears to be an active wargaming community in France as well as a number of conventions each year.

Nice to know. :)

I sell a lot of stuff on eBay to French gamers, Rackham is a French company, they are out there, just a bit quiet.

They keep surrendering….ducks

*sigh*

Let's see, without the French descending into Italy there would be no Italian Wars wargaming. Without their incestuous dustup over religion the would be no French Wars of Religion wargaming. Without the French Thirty Years Wars would be just a teutonic thing. Of course without Louis XIV trying to kick sand in the face of those peace loving Dutch we would not have the early wars of Louis XIV wargaming. Frankly I'm very grateful for French history and the French.

Vive la France

Rich

I'm not French, but if someone demanded I surrender my duck, I probably would comply.

I can always get another duck.

"The Dawghouse prevents me from fully answering this question. French history should be enough of an answer."

Over time, I've found that people who say things like the above know nothing about French History with the exception of Simpsons and SNL sound bites.

I'm not French, but if someone demanded I surrender my duck, I probably would comply.

I can always get another duck.

Don't do it. It's a canard.

A couple of anti-French people on this topic have behaved truly ignorantly and the fact that this site is in English probably flies well over their heads. Interesting to look at the TMP Location, too.
--
Tim

It seems to me that board wargames may have been more popular than miniature wargames. Magazines like Casus Belli and Vae Victis always seemed to be mostly about Avalon Hill type games with miniatures almost an afterthought.

As far as RPG's are concerned there was a blooming gaming market in France until the 90's until the major distributors went belly up. But that's true of RPG's everywhere else.

There are plenty of gamers in France, linguistic barriers and all that probably keep them "out of sight"

One of my best gaming memories ever occurred in France. Last time my wife and I were in Paris (late 2002) we teamed up with a French gamer who took us to his club's Friday night gathering. It was held in a packed hall and was great fun. Everyone was very friendly to us and even though the majority spoke little to no English (and we speak almost no French) they made every effort to make us feel welcome and enjoy the games. I noticed lots of ancients being played at that meeting. Later that night we all headed over to a small bar and drank for several hours more…at which point the language barrier didn't seem to matter as much! :-)

There are also several excellent shops in Paris that stock both English and French language material; Armes et Collections bookshop being at the top of the list. There was a miniatures shop that I remember for their endless display of everything Essex had ever made. It was also the only shop I've ever seen that stocked Lancashire Games miniatures (bought some AWI figures there). Don't know if it's still there but it was again an indication of an active, thriving scene.

I've shipped quite a few books to French addresses and my overall perception is that France has a gaming scene every bit as large as anywhere else, at least per capita.

ykreol.com

My friend Yves owns Ykreol the soft plastic figure company. They are French and make a number of French soldiers. They are for wargaming and so someone must be buying them. The French have a long and proud military history, they fought on both sides in WWII and in the Pacific, North Africa as well as Europe so they are very diverse and interesting from a wargame standpoint.

I have always thought there should be more French wargamers and model companies.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

If you don't see a particular country represented in gaming, it's either because you just haven't found the sites they put up, or most of the sites they put up are in English and you didn't realize it. Look at the LAF it's a German site with a large number of european members and it's all in English.

Connard Sage wrote:

Well this turned septic rather quickly

Ha ha.

I see what you did there.

All the best,

John.

I see what you did there.

It was a semantic accident John. I honestly meant septic – poisonous.

Of course, you may take whatever other meaning you wish from the word. I really don't mind :)