"Paper or Plastic?" Topic

While tooling around the net today looking for image of Napoleonic Russian Guard Cossacks I ran across the site for Junior General and paper soldiers. I have been thinking about just doing plastic soldiers as a way back into the hobby when I found this site today: juniorgeneral.org/index.html
I see several advantages and some disadvantages to both especially in my situation. Maybe you all can point out a few more.

PAPER:
Advantages
Cost, cheap to print out and copy via Office Depot etc.
Size, can be sized up or down.
Ability to modify, Seems pretty simple with the tutorials on the forums and website.
Construction, seems simple enough.
Other, ?

Disadvantages
Labor intensive, seems like a lot of time to modify figures via paintbrush or photo shop. (programs I do not have)
Flat, though I have wargamed with flats in Europe I am not sure of how they would look on the table top, and would have to figure out something for basing that would address and correct the line of sight questions with flats.
Other,?

PLASTIC:
Advantages
Similarity, both to metal figures and in same scales, can be mixed later down the road.
A know skill set, Not different then working with other plastic kits or painting skills with metal military miniatures.
3 dimensional, look like real toy soldier because they are!
Other, ?

Disadvantages
Storage, they take up a lot of space once mounted to bases.
Cost, just a little cheaper then many metal figures. Would need painting supplies and such.
Time, More time to build then metal and requires painting.
Other, ?

This is just an initial blast of random thinking but I am trying to brainstorm some ideas on simple gaming for the future. I do like the challenge of trying to figure out table layouts and terrain for paper wargaming and it is something I have not done (except for some buildings and tents) that would be something new. I have some paper Star Wars ships I have downloaded but not attempted yet that would also be something new. Plus I can see all how PO'ed some of the miniature makers would be if I showed up with paper soldiers!

VR
James Mattes

I have played around with the paper figures for SYW games, all very linear and close order, so seemed like a good option. I found that by the time I had printed them out, cut them out, hand coloured round the edges (I hate the high visibility white backgrounds)each little base of 18 figures in 3 rows of 6 took me longer to create than base painting and dipping 20mm plastic figures. So for me, plastics would get my vote if you want a vertical height rather than just a counter.

What I did like though was the "top down" images which I would be very tempted to try. The Fantasy game (Battleground?) that uses cards with units pictured on them looks neat so a historical game based on those mechanisms would probably look good.

Hey. I am a huge fan of plastics. However, I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. I like soft plastic figs. They run from 6-10 dollars per 48 figures or 12 cavalry. That's 13-21 cents per foot figure and 50-85 cents per cav fig. Hard plastics are 2-3x as expensive roughly on par with OG 25mm metal figs. So, I would readily suggest using soft plastic figs. They cover a vast range of subjects and are pretty decent. I am not a fan of paper miniatures. To each their own but with plastics being so cheap I really don't get their point. They have zero of the visual appeal of 3d figs. You can drop 30-50 dollars on plastics and be ready to run and play good sized games.

Thanks,

John

Don't kid yourself. Paper will take a lot of storage space too.

John,
I have done the 1/72nd Plastic route before and have (maybe) a ton in storage. I was thinking of the newer 28mm stuff, I started going to Ancients in 28mm (Wargames Factory) but with a dozen or so boxes already might not go there, again! Had not thought about the 54mm soft plastic but still gets into having to redo all the paint I would need which for me would be a huge expense.
VR
James Mattes

paper soldiers are a good way to try out something new without spending a whole lot and then finding out you aren't really interested in that era/genre (or that you are, but hardly anyone else is). personally, i think plasics (hard or soft) look better. we do offer paper soldier flats primarily because we have found them neccessary to do in order to round out our range. i think they look pretty good, but that could be because they all look like me in uniform (which they are). trimming and edging paper figures to look their best can be a tedious process. storing them properly does take up some space.

Paper is labor intensive? Compare painting 200 figures the same to printing out 200 figures and gluing them together. Paper is the one area where you save labor if you go for "mass".

Not to mention that for the price of 200 figures, you can purchase an auto cutter and you can print and cut your army in no time at all.

Paper has its own style issues (like the white around the edges RobH talked about), and different 'painting' techniques you'd need to work on. And some people come all stuffy when you pull out paper figures, like you've let down the side.

On the other hand, I've never felt bad dropping my cardstock figures, the worst thing to happen was that a few got bent, or came out of the cheap bases I use (slices of artificial wine cork).

And they do fine for solo gaming to try out new rules. My cardstock gladiators have seen WAY more action than my lead ones, and the pulp guys are well on their way to breaking the record. I only have cardstock for 1/300 galley warfare, and I modified some 28mm card figures to make 1/300 crew and ballistae to equip them.

I do like cardmodeling as its own hobby though, and I've got the tools from work to let me mod/paint my own -- Photoshop/Illustrator , Rhinoceros for 3D, and I sprung for the Craft Robo cutter. There are cheap/free paint tools, and a plugin for sketchup to let you unfold those 3D models, so the tools are available in your current circumstances

As to the disadvantages:
"Labor intensive" – I like the labor, like many people like to paint plastic or lead (and I like it a lot more than I like to paint plastic or lead)

"Flat, <snip> I am not sure of how they would look on the table top" – that's a style question only you can answer (I like the look myself)

"and would have to figure out something for basing that would address and correct the line of sight questions with flats" – not sure what line of sight questions might exist, unless its the 'can't see them when they turn sideways' thing…

I don't have a problem with the white background because I use a sky blue gradient and grass green gradient for the background. When you cut around the figure, you don't need to cut as close to get rid of the white, nor do you need to color. Just plan ahead.

Besides, if you don't like the first batch, chuck them and try another.

I agree with the prejudice thing though. I use paper to game solo in a period that I am not sure I want to invest in. When I am sure, then I can determine if I want to make the switch. So far, although I have purchased FPW figures in lead (in two scales, no less), I still use the paper figures because the is the only army I have completed.

Dale,
How did you do the gradient on the figures?
VR
James Mattes

If you base your paper figs they take up just as much storage space as metals/plastics.

For some reason I find paper figs far more fiddly and time consuming than painting proper ones – I'm sure it is purely psychological, as I'm much more familiar with painting.

I did a card model tank over Christmas, it took me about 2 weeks!

I have gone the top down route for periods I am interestd in, but will never buy figures for. I print out the counters and then place them on peel and stick floor tiles. I pick the tiles up at the local dollar store, 3 for a dollar. this gives the counter some weight and something to grap to move.

we advocate "photo style" flats as opposed to drawn. there is a big difference to the results, but also a big difference in the effort and expense. we think the difference is worth the effort.

we do 24 poses, here is one….

picture

or

link

JG is a wonderful source, but in some manner, they have lost track of their original mission, which is education. having DOZENS of people that color line art does not mean you have a staff of designers. i understand some reticence and restrictions to posting on their forum, but i've been cut out of referencing my free offerings, which were at one time welcomed. sure, their stuff is free, but you just might get what you pay for…

this is what good "flats" look like…

picture

See, there's the whole personal style thing. I like things like old-school drawn flats, Patrick Crusiau's semi-cartooney style, and One-Monk's figures.

I would never field the 'photo style' at all because it looks "fake" in a way drawn art does not. To me, it falls into the uncanny valley where its too real and too unreal, in a disturbing kind of way.

On the other hand, the Junior General figures link
that nebeltex linked to don't really work for me because they are just not done enough (too simply drawn). I might use them in groups for 15mm, probably in groups for 6mm, but not as single skirmish figures as they are presented.

Played a big game a few months ago that had one side made up of plastic and metal GW Tyranid miniatures attacking force of paper One-Monk Terra Force troops, nobody who played even commented on the different materials in use. Mainly we all had fun playing a big fun game.
Pics are here;
picture
picture

good point capt. A, there is only so much you can do with a flat to make it appear "real". the junior general standard style allows them to offer many different sets from a large number of contributors. they offer more than just soldiers, though if flat figures are not your style, you probably won't go for flat tanks or other vehicles. they do have their niche in the gaming world.

To address the issue of storage I am thinking of lamiating the figures and have slotted type bases that I can stick the flats (or is there a better term?) into when I am putting together a game. Figures (or whatever) could be stored in a flat box or something like baseball card storage pages. I started wargaming with Panzerblitz in the early 70s. Looking at the paper tanks on the site I could see doing something along those lines with the figures.
VR
James Mattes

I keep all mine in a cookie tin with the slices-of-cork bases thrown in too. I like removable basing. Somewhere I've got some plastic channel that you slide figures into (came with Steve Jackson Games 'Cardstock characters' bought in the 80s…)

One-Monk gives away some figures which include slide-in slot bases, you might consider that method:
onemonk.com/Downloads.html

Lamination is a good plan – it adds weight, protects the figures, and stops the delamination my pulp guys are undergoing (damp air makes the glue bond fail sometimes).

Interesting thread. Ihave been very taken with paper figures in the last couple of years. I save money, I get to design the whole figure, not just paint it, I can justify not using so many resources on game counters as with lead figures or plastic. I can even customise EVERY figure. If one makes paper scenery it can be fitted in style to the figures.
Here is a project I have completed in 10 days part time which is for a 54mm Hastings campaign.
dukebillsblog.blogspot.com
When one can do the research, design and production oneself it is very satisfyijng and rewarding.
I tried lamination b ut the shiny effect ruins the view of the figures often. I spray with varnish and base on foamboard. Can be slotted for flat storage but i prefer to glue-gun them in place.

Plasticviking2, I couldn't agree more, I hate being tied to figures I don't like and eternally incomplete ranges (one range I was interested in has over 40 different figure codes, different poses within each but is lacking just one type, a pretty essential one but has been missing for 20 something years despite requests). I've never seen a range of Vikings I like either.
So I make my own, do the research, find the look I like.
I particularly like to use artistic styles, your Bayeux tapestry Normans and Billy Bones 'pamphlet' style ECW illustrate the point perfectly.
I don't understand the argument that paper figures take as long as 3-D ones. Maybe scissors need sharpening? It takes me seconds to print, glue and cut a figure but then I am a Nursery teacher, I'm always cutting and sticking!

Glad to know others have similar views Ben. I agree about the styling. I am working now on Conquistadores too , using codex mendoza and other similar illustrated sources. Im workin gout how to make a printable temple pyrsmid from a4 card.
It can tak etime to make th efirst figure but the process gets faster as one works.