"NUTS! " Topic

> I thought I knew what was going on in NUTS!; because I read the book and made a few rolls.
> Two days ago I finaly set up a table and started rolling the dice 3on3 all rep4 fallowing the combat chart; really getting used to the pass2vs. rep; insight test snap fire ect. I am amazed at how such a cool combat system can come from 1 attribute.A constant exchange of fire which is realistic but easy to learn because of low amount
> of "modifiers" like the difference between snap fire and reguar fire dose not change the initial roll only the results. I keep looking for those unnessary modifiers.The impact strength mechanic works vary nicely as the results are cleared up.I was suprised at how differntly the game feels comparied to others,"just play the Game"A wise man once said.
> Last night I had a guy go heroes all at a recieved fire test, he charged, other guy stood his ground and kicked his ass (won by 1 die) in melee, ed I guess, after missing that shot. It was cool.
> Now I am going to start working with more groups, coherency, and such, oh ya..
> grenades to……Jeff

I've played a lot of other systems, including Battleground WW2, Disposable Heroes and others, but have migrated my skirmish level gaming completely over to NUTS! Here's an older thread on it:

TMP link

NUTS! is a great WW2 skirmish game system, and since it's based off the Chain Reaction 3.0 system its compatible with most other Two Hour Wargames books, like the new Dinosaur Hunter book announced today. You should check out the Yahoo! Group, it's quite active and the author is on there answering questions all the time:

link

Welcome to NUTS!! Btw, if you're in the San Jose, CA area there's a demo game being advertised at the Game Kastle in Santa Clara on March 20th.

link

I tried to play the original version by myself and failed utterly. Then I played the current version, which is much be layout and writing, witht he author ar Millennium last year. I also played in the "Colonial Adventures" game and in an "All Things Zombie" game. All of these are based on the Chain Reaction" core mechanics.

Game play is much simpler than it seems just from reading the book because it's so intutive. If you can get through a couple of turns, you've learned the game. It's an amazing system that just feels right when you play it. I think because the "Reactions" on the table make sense.

I don't want to inflate Ed Teixeira's ego too much, but I really think that The "Chain Reaction" core represents something of a landmark in skirmish gaming comparable to Phil Barker's DBx mass combat concepts. It's a new perspective on a old subject.

If you ever get the opportunity to play a Two Hour Wargames game at a convention, don't pass it up! Skirmish gaming may not be your thing particularly or you might not be too interested in the period but I assure you that the excitement is infectious and you will have fun!

I really want to like Nuts! but I bought the first version and could not get excited about it. Something about the reaction system didn't do it for me. I almost never hear anything negative about the system though, so it must be me. I am tempted to buy the second edition, not sure why as the first edition is sitting on my shelf unplayed!

Buzzkill writes: "Something about the reaction system didn't do it for me" and later "the first edition is sitting on my shelf unplayed!"

I think the source why the reaction system didn't do it for you might be right there in the second quote…

I'm not saying you will fall in love with it 100% certainty, but the system is so different than normal You Go I Go that actually playing might open your eyes to it.

I like it.

iA

I had NUTS sitting on my shelf for years and was a devoted Battleground WW2 player, but after deciding to finally play a skirmish game using NUTS as an experiment grew to like it so much I switched from BGWW2 to NUTS.

Now I can play a skirmish game to completion in a few hours and have a lot of fun. BGWW2 is a good system and I enjoyed playing it but could take more than a few hours to play. And even though it used a card activation system to eliminate IGOUGO, I can't recall how many times somebody's unit was basically standing there watching another one move, flank it and shoot it because its card hadn't activated. Frustrating! With the Reaction system your figures *always* do something, even if you don't want them too!

In NUTS, if a unit comes into line of sight a unit will make an "In Sight" test and may very well engage them right then in a firefight, so they don't just stand there while the enemy maneuvers in plain sight. Same goes with a firefight, if fired upon your figures shoot back, or duck into cover -- no more standing there like robots taking fire.

Anyways, I know its not for all people, but I enjoy it -- and that's why we have so many rules to choose from.

Two Hour Wargames are a leap of faith for players that are used to other games. A lot of the mechanics that you've grown used to as essentials aren't there, and you're left wondering how the thing can work. And the longer you stand there wondering, the more impossible it seems. It's only when you start working through a game or two that it all starts making sense, and after that, it's addictive.

Ed always says the games are easier for people that aren't already familiar with other systems. Nuts has become my preferred WWII game these days simply because it's so adaptable. Doing what makes sense works.

Not to say that the rules are perfect, but they are very pliable if you feel you must tinker. The presentation has improved considerably since version 1. If nothing else, you guys that have the older version should try the free Chain Reaction 3 mechanics to see if they grow on you more.

- Bob

After doing a whole bunch of research I settled on NUTS! 2nd edition for my squad level skirmishes, and TW&T for a "few platoon" sized engagements. My son and I love the reaction system, it makes sense to me and every time we play we get a story and great action. Never a dull moment, even when things are going badly.

Have never played Nuts but have read through Chain Reaction. Interesting concept. I would think checking for reaction all the time would bog down the game. Comments?
Love TW&T though. Is Nuts just as smooth?

Joe
platoonforward.blogspot.com

Joe Legan wrote:

Have never played Nuts but have read through Chain Reaction. Interesting concept. I would think checking for reaction all the time would bog down the game. Comments?

Once you get the hang of it, not really. The "two hour" claim is true. You can get into the occasional lengthy exchange, but the reactions generally guarantee that will be infrequent. If find exchanges flow very quickly. What you WON'T have happen is guys dart across open ground without any risk of getting shot at.

I'd recommend giving the CR3 rules a spin, just to try it out.

- Bob

In my short experience with the reaction system, it just becomes natural very quickly, to get used to insight and snap fire.The rolls are always the same (based on reputation REP) the results change by what the models are/were doing at the time of the shot. most rolls are just a few dice often just 1 or 2 more for autoweapons lots of quick little exchanges can change the course of things quickly! Get the combat chart out and check it out!…Jeff

I found that it made me play much more like it was real life – taking cautious approaches to blind corners, having somebody covering the guy who opens the door, clearing problem rooms with a grenade even when I had Certified Badasses (TM) on the team.

the Reaction system seems like it ought to be a problem when you read it, but it flows when you play it, and new players seem to just pick it right up as they play.

Full disclosure – I can count the 2HW titles I DON'T have on one hand… I really like Ed's take on game rules. I have IABSM and I've read ITLSU, and they sound great, but I don't have folks who want to play them (I really do wish I did). Two Hour Wargames products play as well solo or same-side versus the game as they do head to head, so Ed's rules get played…

I settled on NUTS! 2nd edition for my squad level skirmishes, and TW&T for a "few platoon" sized engagements.

I haven't played TW&T before, what's the best feature of those rules? Anyone have a review they can post?

Thank you for the comments. I really should give Chain reaction a try. The concept does sound interesting.

Regarding realistic tactics and crossing streets under fire, I have modified TW&T and include opportunity fire as part of movement so it happens automatically for me anyway.

The best feature of TW&T to me is the unpredictability (caused by the cards) and the focus on leadership (leaders are rated for leadership and can use more cards to do things sometimes). I think it plays great solitaire Cpt Arexu!

Tankisit, not a review but all the platoon forward games on my site are played with TW&T. The Platoon Forward system is a campaign system that overlays TW&T. It could just as easily overlay NUTS as I wrote it generically for solitaire campaigners of all 20th C tactical systems.

Davey, any direct comparison between the 2 games?

Thanks again

Joe
platoonforward.blogspot.com

How many figures per side are common for NUTS!?

Does the system use a IgoUgo or a more random style like cards etc?

Would the system work for figures already based in pairs or groups of 3's?

@Joe … comparison between the two? Really, the systems are a bit too different for that in my mind. The most striking difference to me is that, assuming you've got two players only (I never game in a group) then NUTS! is better at the man-to-man scale (maybe a squad or two total on either side) while TW&T scales easily up to almost company scale. You can certainly use both systems at smaller or larger scales respectively, but why would you want to? I think they're both excellent systems for the scales they were written for.

That said, I'm still tinkering with TW&T to add house rules for op fire and possibly trying to incorporate Blood Sweat and Tears (company-level rules that were recently mentioned here) rules for the uncertainty of hit results based on the action of the hit unit when it activates.

I've also bought Dan Verssen's Frontline: D-Day man-to-man WW2 tactical combat card game, which is, to me, utterly brilliant. It's a slimmer, slicker, modern day version of Up Front! (in some ways) and the gameplay is simply perfect. I've got six games under my belt and continue to be amazed at the system's mechanics, flow, results, etc. **I can not recommend it highly enough.** Rules are available online to review at the dvg.com website. It's so good it's replaced NUTS! as my man-to-man gaming fix. It even has a very very good solitaire system of play.

With 14 ratings/reviews on Board Game Geek it's still almost getting 9/10. link

I remember the 1st edition of Nuts! having problems with "reaction lock" where players would get stuck in a loop of reaction rolls that due to unfortunate, but very probable, dice results would cause those two figures to keep reacting to each other but with no results. Has 2nd edition addressed that?

@ DaveyJJ

Are you using Frontline: D-day as a miniature game or card game? It looks intriguing, I am just curious if it is meant to be played with cards and you are adapting it to mini's or it is meant to be played with mini's using the cards.

@Buzzkill. Straight up card game. Didn't mean to distract from the OP, but it's so brilliant a game I'm playing it all the time now and tend to mention it wherever I am.

Buzzkill wrote:

I remember the 1st edition of Nuts! having problems with "reaction lock" where players would get stuck in a loop of reaction rolls that due to unfortunate, but very probable, dice results would cause those two figures to keep reacting to each other but with no results. Has 2nd edition addressed that?

It shouldn't have been that common in v1, but a lot of people forgot the outgunned and running out of ammo rules. If two low REP figures with bolt-action rifles were in cover and started on each other, it could go for several turns before one side should have ducked back. It can still happen, but I wouldn't call it a common occurrence.

- Bob

My posting showed up as from Vanth. Usually it clears up, but this one seems to have stuck. It was me, honest!

- Bob

DaveyJJ,
thanks again for the comments. Fair enough that they can't be compaired as they are a differnt scale. Will have to try Nuts. I did pen some op fire rules for TW&T in the last Lardy special. Op fire becomes modifiers to movement with the possibility of pinning.
Frontline D-Day looks interesting but what board game really looks interesting to me is compass games Combat Patrol. Their website dosen't have much but boardgame geek has a fair amount I believe.
Thanks again

Joe

Joe, where can I find a link to those op fire rules?

Dave,
Think this was answered on the TFL's group. It is in the Christmas 09 special. Lazy TW&T part III.

Enjoy

Joe

Not played NUTS but had some good CR3 games. I wouldn't play a Platoon sized game with CR 3, but then I wouldn't play a 4 vs 4 game with TW&T.

Sure the Op Fire in TW&T is using 'reserved dice'- if the section card is turned you can choose to retain the 3 'dice' (more accurately 'initiative points') for use late- ie hoping a Big man is drawn so they can move. They can use those reserved dice any point up to the tea break (at which point all reserved dice are used anyway) so they can shoot at movement anyway.

Last Hussar,
Regarding op fire in TW&T as you describe; I didn't like the fact that you only had one shot of op fire so it was easy to be "overwhelemed". While this might work with rifles a MG can cover a large area. Second, moving it as modifiers also made it easier to do for solitaire play and speeds play as well. It works as written, I just like my way better so penned the rules.

Joe

Nuts is very engaging; the hopelessness of a situation can make you (the player)retreat when you have a few men down and you're outgunned or in a poor position. I would argue that it promotes sensible tactics.

Version 1 was a bit less well edited. Version 2 is better. Someone above commented that outgunning an opponent is an important determinant in deciding who continues to exchange fire.

If I have a criticism, it would be that semi-auto rifles like the garand are a bit too powerful in outgun rating. A german with a mauser will never exchange fire with an american with a garand in Nuts. I'd consider lowering the Outgun rating of the garand. That said, play the game a few times and see what you think. I have only played US vs German.

Nuts is a great game. You owe it to yourself to play it. The chain-reaction system is revolutionary.

Jim