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"I-Kore Bought back by Old Guard" Topic

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loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:18 a.m. PST

Robertson and Grant do it again. the ips for i-kore were apparently bought by a mr Pete Flannery with hekp from Colin McCulloch for the rumoured amount of 26K.

Pete used to work for both i-kore and target and Colin was a director of i-kore until last year.

Same old faces buying the company back for Mssrs Robertson and Grant.

Hasslefriesian Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:34 a.m. PST

Figures. Ah well, it looks like I'd have lost even if I'd sold that kidney.

Maybe next time ;)

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP10 Mar 2004 6:36 a.m. PST

Well, maybe they can keep Void and Celtos alive, after all. It'll be ineresting to see where they go with the IP.

Black Rommel Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:40 a.m. PST

Didn't Pete Flannery used to be part of the first run around of Warzone that went under? See the 15 threads of certain people driving companies into the ground....

Underdog Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:48 a.m. PST

Oh ummmmmmm

fredrik Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:52 a.m. PST

Well at least it wasn't GW...

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:52 a.m. PST

if it is correct (although i'm not going down that road again ;-) ) it will good news for the games worlds/universes themselves. lets just hope maybe they'll do a better job of running the company as a company this time

that is presuming that messrs Flannery and McColloch are not actualy buying for theslves? just a question

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:54 a.m. PST

and let's look on the bright side. at least they were not purchased by black tree :-)

maxxon Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:59 a.m. PST

Just the IP? What about outstanding stock, casting equipment and whatnot?

Someone still has to finance them to return to production, it seems.

Hasslefriesian Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 6:59 a.m. PST

"that is presuming that messrs Flannery and McColloch are not actualy buying for theslves? just a question"

That would be better. Pete is one of the worlds good guys, should think customer service might be better if he's in charge. I'd work for him.

I don't know Colin though, I never met him.

Dentatus Fezian10 Mar 2004 7:02 a.m. PST

This is confirmed?
And are JR and JG involved/partial owners of this "new" company?
Or did Pete & Colin get it for themselves?

Hassle: "maybe next time" ? you're a funny guy. :)

Underdog Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 7:03 a.m. PST

SBC why wouldnt it have been good if BTD had bought it, were they in for it?? So its better that the company wreckers got it back instead is it. Why would any person buy I-Kore product now that they know it could just drop away anytime.

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 7:10 a.m. PST

as far as i understand black tree were in for a bid, but everything i hear these days is hearsay anyhow so maybe they weren't. and why would someone buy something? liking it might help. to be honest the amount of flack that was shot at ikore and the johns from the paradox crowd when target went down i am surprised anyone bought from them in the first place. but they did, and i am sure they will again

it is the nature of the beast i guess "we sell cool toys", "ok, i'll buy them"

Black Rommel Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 7:17 a.m. PST

As much as I hate to be all doom and gloom all the time, being in business (in a couple of different forms) there is always a rosy period when you start. "This time it will be different, we will use plan B instead of A". How many times or plans do they have to go through to realize that they know nothing about business? But hey, more power to them. At least they are taking the chance of giving it a shot. And as gamers, we all know how much cheaper figures are when a company goes under :)

Underdog Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 7:18 a.m. PST

I think people will always buy good games and figures even if they run by Hitler and Co

Good point SBC

Vonbloodbath Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 7:47 a.m. PST

Pete Flannery is a very decent guy...he sculpted the Tiger, Korvus and Hydra too, among other things.

I hope he's in control though, and not any of the Johns.


Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:23 a.m. PST

according to miniforums the John's are still in there but as employees not owners. that might help solve management issues? also apparently Pete Flannery is not involved at all, but Colin McCullogh (i have never heard of him) is sole owner

Vonbloodbath Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:24 a.m. PST

OH well, never mind. I guess the karmic smackdown will have to wait.

JR pulls a fast one...again.


darrelr Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:41 a.m. PST

Here's what has been posted on Miniforms by Ben Brownlie

"John has just called and he will make an official statement later, but in the meantime he says that although i-Kore can not remain as a company the trademark still exists. Mr Colin McCullogh has won the auction outright. Pete Flannery is not involved at all and John Robertson and John Grant will be employees of Mr McCullogh's company, Urban Mammoth. JG, JR and at least six other recongnised names in the industry have come together to form a strategic partnership under the umbrella of the Urban Mammoth group. There is a stack load of stuff going on that has been developing behind the scenes over the last fortnight all of which depended on the outcome of today's meetings

all of this is form the horses mouth, but obviously i do not have access to everything that is going on nor the authority to repeat everything i was told. but John should be able to expand on this later this evening"

In another Post about the Moulds - Ben writes

"No, the moulds are owned elsewhere. the master moulds are owned by the poeple who were employed to make them and the production moulds all by scotia micro models. i do not know whether these have been purchased too. today was just about the ip and stock plus the assorted equipment from the office and warehouse"

Well I guess we will have to "Just Wait And See" - Personally I would rather have seen Void / Celtos go to someone new - since from what I read it sounds like more JR & JG Big Plans / Big Schemes...


Hasslefriesian Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:43 a.m. PST

As a wise man once said "Bog o' Sh*te"

Hasslefriesian Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:43 a.m. PST

Or even "Bag o' Sh*te"

Hands are still cold from going to get the kids from school :(

Vonbloodbath Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:50 a.m. PST

It is a little depressing, I thought it could have been the end for them. :o(


darrelr Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:50 a.m. PST

Hmmm - When your talking about JR & JG and all the other stuff in the posted annoucement - I think you got it right the first time... It truly is a 'Bog' of Sh*t - There's too much of it to fit into a Bag.


Cannon Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 8:59 a.m. PST

Regardless of who owns the company..its has to be good news for those of us who play void or celtos and want to see the product survive. from whats been mentioned its been bought by a cooperative group with mr McColloch at the Head. maybe this group includes the mould owners and model manufacturers either way with it being a new company i would be inclined to watch out for price increase on models if and when they do go back into production

loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:04 a.m. PST

not really much to add to 'bag of sh**e' except it smells a bit like a fix, too convenient.......ahh well not a lot we can do about it except see what they are going to do with it.

so how are they going to keep the range alive then??......according to mr hasslefree himself he is planning on concentrating on his business and some freelance work. Is he going to do a deal with the guys that screwed him over or not??

loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:06 a.m. PST

as far as i am aware the mould owners are not part of it. well at least one of the three for definite isnt.....not sure about the other two though.

Hasslefriesian Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:16 a.m. PST

"Is he going to do a deal with the guys that screwed him over or not??"


Vonbloodbath Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:18 a.m. PST

I believe Scotia were owed a significant sum of money by i-Kore, so I doubt Bob will be all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows unless he's getting reimbursed.


Roadknight Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:18 a.m. PST

just wondering, Im not trying to start a war or anything, but you keep claiming to be so close to the situation but you've been wrong now on two of these claims.
(Ie Kev white and Pete Flannery.)

Black Rommel Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:23 a.m. PST

Mr McCollough (Spelling, forgive me Im slow) was part of the original Warzone team as well if I recall correctly. So if everything is true above, you're looking at Warzone Mk IV. Looking at the time line, this version should last another 1.8 years and fold.

NikkiB Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:29 a.m. PST

Miniforums url :

Roadknight Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:33 a.m. PST

BRommel. Just checked out my books and I ll check over the next week or so. but Mr McCollough does not appear anywhere and Ive never heard his name come up in connection with MC:WZ from way back.

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:37 a.m. PST

Black Rommel, i-Kore lasted what, 4 years as was? a lot of small companies go out of business in their first year of business (i think the uk figures are something like 80%) so 4 years is not too bad

if they can keep it small and tight and not get too ambitious then maybe it can work?

other than that there is a lot of hate in here. i just want to play games

Hasslefriesian Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:37 a.m. PST

Colin McCulloch was a Director of I-Kore until half way through 2002, when he quit. He was still a shareholder in I-Kore until the end though.

It is my understanding that he is a good friend of one of the two Johns. I believe he is a lawyer or solicitor or accountant. That kind of job.

loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 9:45 a.m. PST

hi there road knight.............why say start a is an open forum..i have no issues with those that want to question me.

i am close or i would not have been able to post either the first topic about them going bust at least two hours before TMP editor (btw...who do you think told the editor anyway??)

I also had more information than anyone here about who was at the meeting and who had the winning bids.

but in light of the 'official statement' the information from my contact in edinburgh apparrently wasnt completely accurate.....only partly. I have never claimed to have the whole of all of the story.......just parts of what was going on which were being kept from the general population that is all.

I am a bit confused though.....what has Kev white got to do with it and what was i wrong about with him??

just a quick point to ponder...........who was it that told us that Pete Flannery wasnt involved?? ( he was at the meeting btw) .....none other than JR himself........ask yourself how many other times he has misled us in the past few months??

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:18 a.m. PST

[who was it that told us that Pete Flannery wasnt involved?? ( he was at the meeting btw) .....none other than JR himself]

i would not have thought that JR would go on record and state, albeit via an intermediary, that a person was not a director when in a few days time that could be verified at companies house. perhaps it is because Pete Flannery was at the meeting that presumetion was made?

Cannon Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:21 a.m. PST

I have been involved in this hobby for over 17years and I have always found there to be a strong sense of cameraderie between gamers.I know from experience that some companies do not live upto expectations and some go under...this may or may not be due to the involvement of specific individuals however without being there at the time and having complete knowledge of what happened and what went wrong .....I feel justified in saying that we as gamers cannot comment on who is or isnt fit to run a games company......

as Gamers we buy a product because we like it and want to support it...not because of who owns the company. i have always like void and I will continue to support Void. as for the comments made againt Jr and JG i have heard the rumours and talk about their reputations...I am going to treat these comments as hear I dont know both the individuals on a personal level well enough to make a comment or an opinion I will not lower myself to becoming a part of the TMP Mob.and till such times as we are all in a position to make comments based on personal dealings with any individual of any company then I suggest nothing should be said

loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:24 a.m. PST

a presumption was made, that has not been denied.

i didnt claim he was a director, just that my contact thought he was involved. a person doesnt have to be a director to be involved with purchasing a company. there have been many purchases over the years that i am aware of in various parts of the industry where someone put up money and aided in the purchase but didnt want to be a director.

However he could be a significant shareholder without also being a director.

loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:27 a.m. PST

however if you do make comments based on personal dealings and a long history of working with/around them then you are deemed to be stirring, so what can we actually discuss then??

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:29 a.m. PST

i apologise loobyloo. i was in the mideset of buying=director, but you are of course correct in this. after all McCulloch seems to have been a sharehlder of i-kore after his tenure as a director ended. Ben Brownlie's statement says "not involved" but i wonder at what level? maybe it meant directorship, maybe money, maybe at all?

Cannon Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:30 a.m. PST

maybe just sticking to facts rather than offering personal biased opinions might help.....

most of us havent had personal dealings with either individual so we only have your version\ representation to go on...

as for helping keep a product alive that many gamers enjoy...I would say from your comments that you wood be more than happy if the products disappeared all together.

loobylooagain Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:38 a.m. PST

thank you SBC. i dont know how he is involved. i do know he's generally regarded as a good bloke and it would have been good if he was a diector.

cannon: i've said elsewhere on TMP that i think the games and miniatures are great. i'd hate for them to go under altogether.

i'm just sceptical of the two johns and would be happier if they were not involved at all. i think that if left to their own devices we will be in this situation again in a couple of years.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian10 Mar 2004 10:38 a.m. PST

[btw...who do you think told the editor anyway??]

loobylooagain, you are putting me in a difficult situation.

First of all, you have no idea who "told me" about the i-Kore situation, other than yourself. You were actually one of many sources of information.

Second, I do know what your source of information is. Those individuals tell me that they do not want to be drawn into this discussion, and that they have not given you permission to reveal their information in this forum.

Meiczyslaw10 Mar 2004 10:56 a.m. PST

There's an important safety tip in what Bill said, folks.

If you don't want something to be heard, don't say it.

If you tell somebody who flaps their gums, it's your own fault for tellin' him in the first place.

Vonbloodbath Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 11:08 a.m. PST

@Cannon - amigo, I gotta diagree with you on this. People have a right to buy games based on any criteria they wish.

that includes the quality of miniatures / rules / customer service / price AND the individuals / business practices.

You have, on many occasions, made comments about, for example, GW which were both derogatory, and inflammatory, and were to do with their business practices. This is the same thing.

You have every right to buy / play i-Kore, and like JR.

Others have every right to avoid ikore, and dislike JR.

EVERYONE has every right to believe what they will, and people have a right to share information, and opinions.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP10 Mar 2004 1:57 p.m. PST

loobylooagain, why don't you just identify yourself, instead of being a mysterious "person in the know" with "contacts"? This cloak and dagger sturm und drang over a company which makes silly looking figures is a bit strange. Well, I guess super heroes need a secret identity.

Alxbates Inactive Member10 Mar 2004 10:59 p.m. PST


This is such a small hobby - why must there be all this drama? I can wait and see what happens. I'm inpatient, but I can wait.

Ironmammoth Inactive Member11 Mar 2004 1:37 a.m. PST

Well personally I am a bit annoyed that Colin McCulloch has picked a company name like "Urban Mammoth" as it is far to close to my own venture (Mammoth Miniatures/Ironmammoth Design -

I know that compared to I-Kore, Mammoth Miniatures is small fry but I am also sure that this will only cause confusion with customers.

Snowballs Chance Inactive Member11 Mar 2004 5:09 a.m. PST

[I know that compared to I-Kore, Mammoth Miniatures is small fry but I am also sure that this will only cause confusion with customers.]

looking on the bright side it might even help you out! for exmaple, and i don't mean to be rude, but before your post i had never heard of you. now you have at least one potential new customer :)

p.s. i like the mammoth with a howdah on your site

Ironmammoth Inactive Member11 Mar 2004 5:44 a.m. PST

Hi "Snowballs Chance",

Thanks for the comments, I suppose the confusion could work in my favour!

I spent quite some time hunting around to make sure no-one else in the gaming industry was using Mammoth in their title when I chose it, shame other are not so considerate!

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