"How silenced can a pistol be?" Topic

Movies that feature the plot device of an assassin using a silenced pistol often portray it being so quiet that someone in the next room doesn't hear it. I know how loud even a small caliber handgun is, especially in an enclosed space like a room. So with the right set up, I assume sub sonic ammunition combined with a well designed suppressor, can you get a small gun to be so quiet that someone beyond the next door can't hear it?

The specific movie I'm thinking of is Dinner Rush.

No weapon will ever be completely silent. The best you can hope for would be a somewhat quieter report plus the mechanical cycling noise of the pistol.

According to Ian Hogg, the clatter of the Welrod's bolt action was much louder than the actual report of the weapon – but that was basically a weapon built around a silencer . . .

I fired a "silenced' Mac-10 a number of years ago… it actually made a loud 'clanking' noise- nothing like the 'thwip' sound you hear in the movies.

That said, I suspect one could gun a person down, and anyone nearby would not ever recognize it as a gun report. It sounded like two metal pipes smacking against each other.

Otto Skorzeny used a captured silenced Sten to shoot some birds from an upstairs window and passers-by in the street below didn't even look up.

Silenced Stens (and later Sterlings) had impressively large silencers though.

I did read somewhere long ago and now unremembered, so I can't comment on its veracity, that the sound of a subsonic round hitting a human body is louder than a decently silenced weapon (and quite noticable in its own right).

As far as pistols are concerned yes the U.S. Army has supressed the M-9 with a slide stop that prevents the weapon from functioning the slide and making the weapon almost undetectable. Yes you do hear a clicking of the report from the round but it is significantly reduced. The MP5K and MP5 series also (SMGs) have a very low report and these still function the bolt and reload. I have fired these in a room with folks not wearing any ear protection and they did not notice much of a report. It sounds much like someone just loading a round into the chamber then firing a round.
VR
James Mattes

I think the H&K USP45 SOCOM MK23 Mod 0 has the ability to fire without the slide moving, which would reduce the noise of the action.

Yes I think you are correct there I have not fired it but remember seeing the system during field tests.
VR
James Mattes

From my limited experience – a .22 caliber round in the right pistol (.22 High Standard) is so quiet that it sounds like someone flicking open a Zippo lighter – only quieter.

My uncle reported once that his 9mm pistol he used with a silencer was so quiet that it could not be heard over the sounds of evening insects in Cambodia.

So, from that I would say that they could be very, very quiet – and a silenced revolver would only have the tumble of the cylinder IF you cycled the whole thing. If you had it already cocked, it would be like closing a lighter – a sound, but something easily over-looked if the TV was on in the other room. No "zip" noise like Hollywood.

It is almost impossible to suppress a revolver, due to the gases expanding and escaping around the cylinder.
VR
James Mattes

The Welrod was a single shot weapon, the bolt acton reload was after the shot was fired. This was a .32 calibre and subsonic so no "crack" hence why it was the quietest availble; still is I believe.

Silenced revolvers unfortunatley don't seal completely so you do get more noise effect than others.

As a good many have mentioned it is mostly the sound of the silenced automatic weapon's action cycling that makes the sound likely to alert someone they are being shot at… apart from the rather annoying pain of the little projectiles thumping you…

So I wonder where Hollywood got the idea for the sound they use for silencers… since from what y'all say it has no bearing on any sort of reality (yeah, I know… Hollywood and reality are not friends).

The only revolver with decent sound suppression is the Russian Nagant. This is due to the unique seal of the cylinder with the barrel.

Soviets made some pretty silent weapons, they keep the slide from moving and such to keep the noise down.

Also heard about cartridges with a little trap under under the bullet that keep the expanding gasses imprisoned and further reduce the noise (only works single shot and with necked rounds)

Hollywood silencers are just like the sound of a sword drawn from a scabbard. Everybody knows the sound, but they don't make that sound in real life.

So, the climactic scene in the movie Blue Velvet where Frank is walking around that apartment shooting a silenced semi-auto pistol and he has to manually work the slide each shot, that is an accurate depiction and not due to blanks being used? (blanks not having the power to work the reload cycle)

Hollywood silencer:

link

Real silencer:

YouTube link

Silenced-er:

YouTube link

Allen

Some more interesting Youtube videos:

YouTube link

YouTube link

These were incredibly silent. Perhaps someone standing off to the side or beyond the muzzle would hear a louder sound.

Even subsonic rounds make a bit of noise as they go past you. More than once as a young private I had to pull targets on what was know as a known distance range. Basicly you sat behind a berm with targets stuck up over you. You pulled them down and put patches on them. Anyway bullets made some noise even when they missed, and a lot when they hit something.

The question is, is a Military load .45 subsonic? I believe so. It certainly made a much different sound than 5.56, and was much quiter. Of course that is entirely subjective, and I wasnt really trying to compare the two sounds anyway. And they where never fired at the same time anyway.

9mm is a lot faster than a .45 so I dont know if they can be subsonic or not. Maybe with a special loading.

A friend once discribed a silenced pistol he fired as "a loud fart in a breeze".

There's a certain poetry to that statement.

MP-5's I saw fired with silencers on full auto had the action giving off more noise than the rounds.

There is a special 9mm subsonic load made specifically for the military. A heavier bullet is used compared to normal loads (147 grain vs. 95 or 125 grain)so that lethality is maintained despite the slower muzzle velocity. All miltary loads for the 45 acp that I have seen are subsonic, due to that big ol' bullet.

It'll never be completely silent. The best you can achieve is reduced loudness and have it unrecoginizable as a gunshot.

And from the FWIW department the Military calls them suppressors not silencers. Not that it makes a bit of difference. The range videos are pretty good but the volume is hard to get right.
VR
James Mattes

The 'silenced' rounds where the projectile is ejected by a piston that stays in the cartridge were developed for the US forces in Vietnam – the 'Tunnel Rats' used then in .44 cal revolvers. No blast, no tunnel collapse, no flash. Very low muzzle velocity so you need a big bullet, and generally too little recoil energy to reliably cycle an automatic..

I have an idea that some were made as shot shells for firing at snakes and other non-human inhabitants of the tunnels.

"And from the FWIW department the Military calls them suppressors not silencers. Not that it makes a bit of difference."

Especially not to the U.S. Code, and thus to the BATF, who do not make that distinction! The regulated item is "any silencer".

Allen

Ah but baffles are not! Or so I have heard. ;-)

I still would not push it, after my run in with an SP-89 with a pistol grip

VR
James Mattes

I've heard of a suppressor for a .50BMG rifle that reduces the almighty blast of that cannon to sound levels about like a .22, but it's the size of a 3-stack of #10 cans!

I love living in a state where such things are legal (if expensive, ~$1000 once you pay ATF). helps save your ears when you shoot a lot. Suppressor + electronic earmuffs for still being able to hear things when you're 60.

Hell I can't stand being with a foot or two of am M2 when they it goes off. I had a flash burn from one on the tailgate of an MH-53 in Panama once.
VR
James Mattes

Hi

45 acp is always subsonic. Usually ca 900fps.

Standard 9s are 1200fps or so, thus the supersonic crack.

.22s are mildly supersonic, thus might not crack if the barrel is short.

A lot of noise is from the gas escaping from the breach when the auto cycles.

And, no, I have no idea why or how Hollywood decides on the sounds these things make. My favorites,of course, are the amazing noise in "spaghetti westerns".

Rocky