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"Free Nafziger Orders of Battle Collection PDFs online" Topic

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02 Mar 2010 1:29 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Nafziger Orders of Battle Collection" to "Free Nafziger Orders of Battle Collection PDFs online"

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Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 11:44 a.m. PST

Im not sure if this had been posted before. But a treasure trove of TO&Es from the Nafziger Orders of Battle Collection is free online :). Robert


Jeigheff21 Feb 2010 12:31 p.m. PST

If this has been posted before, I certainly missed it.I've bought some of these OOBs from Mr. Nafziger in the past, but had no idea they were free online.

Thank you, Kaoschallenged!


Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 12:43 p.m. PST

I appreciate it Jeff :). But thanks should go to the Combat Arms Research Library for posting them! :) Robert

Derek H21 Feb 2010 1:41 p.m. PST

Useful. But I don't understand why Nafziger never gives references to his sources. I've known people to find other sources that disagree with what's in some Nafziger orders of battle and they can't check things out properly because don't he doesn't reference.

Are those free ones indexed anywhere?

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 1:50 p.m. PST

Here ya go for the index. Robert

tuscaloosa21 Feb 2010 2:26 p.m. PST

Presumably they have his permission to post them?

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 2:34 p.m. PST

"Presumably they have his permission to post them?"

The US Army? I would hope so!! LOL Robert

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 2:52 p.m. PST

With there being OOBs from the 1600s to the 1900s I just realized that this thread would have been a good one to have crossposted. Robert

wishfulgamer21 Feb 2010 3:41 p.m. PST

I did not know this existed. Thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you! I just hope they have permission.


Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 4:06 p.m. PST

You are most welcome. I seriously doubt that the US Army Combined Arms Research Library wpuld be posting them if they didn't have permission. :) Robert

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 5:49 p.m. PST

I wish there were a way to pin or sticky this thread. I think alot would be interested. Robert

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 6:56 p.m. PST

Derek H. Just looking at a few of the OOBs He does lists sources at the bottom of the last page :). Robert

John Leahy21 Feb 2010 7:15 p.m. PST

Just wish there was a description. Tough just guessing.

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 7:31 p.m. PST

I know it can be annoying but if you go to the Nafziger index part of his site you will find the corresponding numbers and descriptions. :) Robert

The G Dog Fezian21 Feb 2010 7:46 p.m. PST

The few I've purchased over the years did include the bibliographic reference for the source material.

Kaoschallenged21 Feb 2010 11:28 p.m. PST

So far I have found that all the one I have looked at d have them The G Dog. :) Ronert

Derek H22 Feb 2010 12:23 a.m. PST

The few I've purchased over the years did include the bibliographic reference for the source material.

Looking at a good few I see that most do, though some don't.

Kaoschallenged22 Feb 2010 12:29 a.m. PST

Arrrgghhhhhh I couldn't spell!!! LOL. Robert

"So far I have found that all the ones I have looked at have them The G Dog. :) Robert"

Kaoschallenged22 Feb 2010 12:31 a.m. PST

Which ones Derek? I have checked over 40 so far and each one has a source(s). Only two didn't. Robert

Kaoschallenged22 Feb 2010 12:38 a.m. PST

"This collection was provided through the generous donation of George Nafziger to the Combined Arms Research Library"

Cerdic22 Feb 2010 2:42 a.m. PST

What a fantastic resource!

Derek H22 Feb 2010 6:52 a.m. PST

Which ones Derek? I have checked over 40 so far and each one has a source(s). Only two didn't. Robert

What I said then. My memory is that some periods are less well referenced than others. Years ago a friend was researching the Thirty Year's War and said that the Nafziger documents he accessed did not have references. Looking at what's at that link I see that some certainly do.

I'm pleased that I was wrong in my original post.

As Cerdic said, a fantastic resource. And it is indeed generous of him to make them available like this.

Kaoschallenged22 Feb 2010 10:03 a.m. PST

No Prob Derek :). BTW. I posted this somewhere else and there was some confusion. The link to the Combat Arms Research Library is where they are available for free. The link to the Nafziger site is for the index of what the PDFs contain. Robert

donlowry22 Feb 2010 11:53 a.m. PST

I wish there were a way to pin or sticky this thread. I think a lot would be interested.

Start a new thread on the boards you think appropriate, and link it to this one.

Kaoschallenged22 Feb 2010 12:37 p.m. PST

When 11th ACR created his thread before he knew I had posted he had already crossposted to a few of the other Boards. I don't want to make it even more cluttered With more crossposting on the same subject. Robert

Kaoschallenged22 Feb 2010 10:06 p.m. PST

Im hoping Bill may take my request :). Robert

alincoln198123 Feb 2010 1:19 p.m. PST

I also think that this is a great gesture by Nafziger. But I would also have to say I would be careful with using them unsupported.

Obviously some of the lists will have typo's or other similar problems but there are often also other problems. Sometimes it is clear that Nafziger doesn't read, or only has a basic knowledge of, the language that the source document is in. On other occasions it is the source itself that is the problem.

It would of course be remarkable if he could read all the languages of the documents he has used. But this does mean that often there are mistakes because of this. For example he has misunderstood what the source is saying or something similar. I know a case for example where the source has a list of all the units in the area and then a second list of the units from this list which were NOT at a battle. Unfortunately a probable misunderstanding of the language mans that this list of units not at the battle is produced as those that are.

The above mistakes are kind of Nafziger's but I repeat very understandable but the other main problem with these lists is the sources themselves. You see Nafziger just reproduces the lists as they appear in original sources but this can be a big problem if the original source is no good,wrong,etc. What needs to be done is for the information in a source to be assessed and compared to other sources to see how reliable it is. This is what is normally done and indeed Nafziger does this in his excellent booklets (Does anyone know what will happen to these?). But these lists, assuming errors have not crept in, are just raw data and without some kind of assessment of their reliabilty they shouldn't be relied on too much.

So the lists are a good starting point for research but not really reliable enough to certain about and I am afraid often flawed :(

Kaoschallenged23 Feb 2010 2:33 p.m. PST

I always take any list with a grain of salt. Be they from Nafziger's, FoW, or any other source. Robert

Kaoschallenged23 Feb 2010 3:02 p.m. PST

Some did make a point about some of these lists being from original sources. Did Mr Nafziger add or attempt to clarify what he found? Robert

Kaoschallenged23 Feb 2010 4:02 p.m. PST

And here is the word from Mr.Nafziger himself if you happened to miss it :). Robert

TMP link

Kaoschallenged23 Feb 2010 7:37 p.m. PST

As per Mr Zafziger's comments I look forward to having the links organized better. Robert

Kaoschallenged25 Feb 2010 11:24 p.m. PST

Some did make a point about some of these lists being from original sources. Did Mr Nafziger add or attempt to clarify what he found? Robert

Kaoschallenged27 Feb 2010 4:43 p.m. PST

An Update. Looks like you can't access the Descriptions now on The Nafziger Collection site. I guess we will have to wait until Carl lists them better. Robert

Kaoschallenged01 Mar 2010 3:56 p.m. PST

An Index of the Nafziger OOBs. Thanks to summerfield. Robert
PDF link

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