Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 11:44 a.m. PST |
Im not sure if this had been posted before. But a treasure trove of TO&Es from the Nafziger Orders of Battle Collection is free online :). Robert link |
Jeigheff | 21 Feb 2010 12:31 p.m. PST |
If this has been posted before, I certainly missed it.I've bought some of these OOBs from Mr. Nafziger in the past, but had no idea they were free online. Thank you, Kaoschallenged! Jeff |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 12:43 p.m. PST |
I appreciate it Jeff :). But thanks should go to the Combat Arms Research Library for posting them! :) Robert |
Derek H | 21 Feb 2010 1:41 p.m. PST |
Useful. But I don't understand why Nafziger never gives references to his sources. I've known people to find other sources that disagree with what's in some Nafziger orders of battle and they can't check things out properly because don't he doesn't reference. Are those free ones indexed anywhere? |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 1:50 p.m. PST |
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tuscaloosa | 21 Feb 2010 2:26 p.m. PST |
Presumably they have his permission to post them? |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 2:34 p.m. PST |
"Presumably they have his permission to post them?" The US Army? I would hope so!! LOL Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 2:52 p.m. PST |
With there being OOBs from the 1600s to the 1900s I just realized that this thread would have been a good one to have crossposted. Robert |
wishfulgamer | 21 Feb 2010 3:41 p.m. PST |
I did not know this existed. Thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you thank-you! I just hope they have permission. Glen. |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 4:06 p.m. PST |
You are most welcome. I seriously doubt that the US Army Combined Arms Research Library wpuld be posting them if they didn't have permission. :) Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 5:49 p.m. PST |
I wish there were a way to pin or sticky this thread. I think alot would be interested. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 6:56 p.m. PST |
Derek H. Just looking at a few of the OOBs He does lists sources at the bottom of the last page :). Robert |
John Leahy | 21 Feb 2010 7:15 p.m. PST |
Just wish there was a description. Tough just guessing. |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 7:31 p.m. PST |
I know it can be annoying but if you go to the Nafziger index part of his site you will find the corresponding numbers and descriptions. :) Robert home.fuse.net/nafziger/OBS.HTML |
The G Dog | 21 Feb 2010 7:46 p.m. PST |
The few I've purchased over the years did include the bibliographic reference for the source material. |
Kaoschallenged | 21 Feb 2010 11:28 p.m. PST |
So far I have found that all the one I have looked at d have them The G Dog. :) Ronert |
Derek H | 22 Feb 2010 12:23 a.m. PST |
The few I've purchased over the years did include the bibliographic reference for the source material. Looking at a good few I see that most do, though some don't. |
Kaoschallenged | 22 Feb 2010 12:29 a.m. PST |
Arrrgghhhhhh I couldn't spell!!! LOL. Robert "So far I have found that all the ones I have looked at have them The G Dog. :) Robert" |
Kaoschallenged | 22 Feb 2010 12:31 a.m. PST |
Which ones Derek? I have checked over 40 so far and each one has a source(s). Only two didn't. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 22 Feb 2010 12:38 a.m. PST |
"This collection was provided through the generous donation of George Nafziger to the Combined Arms Research Library" |
Cerdic | 22 Feb 2010 2:42 a.m. PST |
What a fantastic resource! |
Derek H | 22 Feb 2010 6:52 a.m. PST |
Which ones Derek? I have checked over 40 so far and each one has a source(s). Only two didn't. Robert What I said then. My memory is that some periods are less well referenced than others. Years ago a friend was researching the Thirty Year's War and said that the Nafziger documents he accessed did not have references. Looking at what's at that link I see that some certainly do. I'm pleased that I was wrong in my original post. As Cerdic said, a fantastic resource. And it is indeed generous of him to make them available like this. |
Kaoschallenged | 22 Feb 2010 10:03 a.m. PST |
No Prob Derek :). BTW. I posted this somewhere else and there was some confusion. The link to the Combat Arms Research Library is where they are available for free. The link to the Nafziger site is for the index of what the PDFs contain. Robert |
donlowry | 22 Feb 2010 11:53 a.m. PST |
I wish there were a way to pin or sticky this thread. I think a lot would be interested. Start a new thread on the boards you think appropriate, and link it to this one. |
Kaoschallenged | 22 Feb 2010 12:37 p.m. PST |
When 11th ACR created his thread before he knew I had posted he had already crossposted to a few of the other Boards. I don't want to make it even more cluttered With more crossposting on the same subject. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 22 Feb 2010 10:06 p.m. PST |
Im hoping Bill may take my request :). Robert |
alincoln1981 | 23 Feb 2010 1:19 p.m. PST |
I also think that this is a great gesture by Nafziger. But I would also have to say I would be careful with using them unsupported. Obviously some of the lists will have typo's or other similar problems but there are often also other problems. Sometimes it is clear that Nafziger doesn't read, or only has a basic knowledge of, the language that the source document is in. On other occasions it is the source itself that is the problem. It would of course be remarkable if he could read all the languages of the documents he has used. But this does mean that often there are mistakes because of this. For example he has misunderstood what the source is saying or something similar. I know a case for example where the source has a list of all the units in the area and then a second list of the units from this list which were NOT at a battle. Unfortunately a probable misunderstanding of the language mans that this list of units not at the battle is produced as those that are. The above mistakes are kind of Nafziger's but I repeat very understandable but the other main problem with these lists is the sources themselves. You see Nafziger just reproduces the lists as they appear in original sources but this can be a big problem if the original source is no good,wrong,etc. What needs to be done is for the information in a source to be assessed and compared to other sources to see how reliable it is. This is what is normally done and indeed Nafziger does this in his excellent booklets (Does anyone know what will happen to these?). But these lists, assuming errors have not crept in, are just raw data and without some kind of assessment of their reliabilty they shouldn't be relied on too much. So the lists are a good starting point for research but not really reliable enough to certain about and I am afraid often flawed :( |
Kaoschallenged | 23 Feb 2010 2:33 p.m. PST |
I always take any list with a grain of salt. Be they from Nafziger's, FoW, or any other source. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 23 Feb 2010 3:02 p.m. PST |
Some did make a point about some of these lists being from original sources. Did Mr Nafziger add or attempt to clarify what he found? Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 23 Feb 2010 4:02 p.m. PST |
And here is the word from Mr.Nafziger himself if you happened to miss it :). Robert TMP link |
Kaoschallenged | 23 Feb 2010 7:37 p.m. PST |
As per Mr Zafziger's comments I look forward to having the links organized better. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 25 Feb 2010 11:24 p.m. PST |
Some did make a point about some of these lists being from original sources. Did Mr Nafziger add or attempt to clarify what he found? Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 27 Feb 2010 4:43 p.m. PST |
An Update. Looks like you can't access the Descriptions now on The Nafziger Collection site. I guess we will have to wait until Carl lists them better. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 01 Mar 2010 3:56 p.m. PST |
An Index of the Nafziger OOBs. Thanks to summerfield. Robert PDF link |