"What if Hitler had sent a different general to Africa?" Topic

Not rommel, in other words.
Just some other competent general. Someone who paid attention to logistics and supply, and did not have to lead each battle from the front.
Also, someone who obeyed his orders.

Your choice of replacement.

((This should be followed by "What if Churchill did not interfere so much in North Africa?", but let someone else start it. ))

What if North Africa had still been verdant agricultural land in 1940?

The Axis would have still lost. They probably wouldn't have had the extreme advances, the general would have followed orders and not shot out on a shoe string.

No Tobruk, Crusader, Supercharge. A long, slow effort designed to keep Italy from defeat.

My choice of replacement? Why on earth would you want to replace Rommel? He kept the British tied up in N.Africa for three years with limited resources and wasn't pushed out till the allies had such overwhelming odds in men and material that it was hopeless.
And Allen,I guess all the tanks would have been painted green instead of tan and we wouldn't have all the arguments about caunter camo.
and Montgomery wouldn't have become so famous cause he would have beaten just some other guy instead of "the Desert fox"
Pete

What if Hitler had sent zombie panzergrenadiers to Africa?

What if Hitler had sent zombie panzergrenadiers to Africa?

I imagine they would have smelt quite bad and attracted all those flies that North Africa has.

Wouldna had to worry about his logistics as much.

dammit Allen I can't keep up with all these questions.I guess the Brits would have countered the ZPG with Shaun of the Dead.

With the allies reading the Germans' messages it probably wouldn't have made any difference.

What if Monty had had sandworms at Alamein?

Well…Monty DID look like he had worms…

What about Kesserling? Maybe he would Have halted at Tobruk until the harbor could be repaired and up and running. I think it was logistics that defeated Rommel. If his supplies were coming from Tobruk instead of Tripoli maybe it would have been a better fight.

Someone else may have tried to dislodge the allies from malta and secure better ,not perfect supplies to where they were needed.
Someone with a better understanding of the italians in the area might have got more out of them.

Well, there was also von Manstein – he had a pretty good track record

That being said, I like Stephens idea about "Smiling Albert" Kesselring – great grasp of logisitics, and an excellent ability to get the most out of "Latin" allies

Maybe whoever else was sent to Africa would have waited for Malta to fall instead of pressing the attack on Mersa Matruh and dooming himself to failure.

He would have crossed the desert listening to Rock Lobster and Love Shack?

the problem with supplies was not malta (ok taking malta would have helped) actually the 90% of everything sent arrived…

the problem was that everything sent was sent in tripoli and then ship had to wait days if not weeks beacuse porta facilities were overloaded. Then everything had to be sent by truck (no railroads) to the front… and truck need fuels, spare parts and food for drivers… one area where Malta was an huge potential threat was tobruk, malta would have been in a good position to interdict tobruk direct shipping.

One key thing would have been an operational pause after Gazala, repairing the harbour, improving the road (also the nice macadam road we built stopped at the border wire… the imperial tract of the coastal road was pretty bad until the rail started…).

A good pick could have been Model, another one Bayerlein or Manteuffel…

but the scenario would have been the same… holding action to the wire. SO repeat of the 1940 campaign, probably a better and more methodical siege of tobruk, better command and control during Crusader and probably no need to move back to El Agheila. No gazala, probably another british push to the wire (I bet if crusader failed and then tobruk was still under siege Winnie would have ordered another great relief, if Tobruk fell a full scale offensive) then holding back until the Imperials had a real offensive capability in fall 1942… Harder fighting on the border (close to Axis supply line, probably with tobruk in Axis hands and repaired and at this point Malta gone) but then Torch anyway. SO again close call… except that if the troops in libya were still largely intact and supplied at the point the situation change. Arnim and Mess can get a build up in tunizia and air cover from Malta, Lybia, Italy and Crete makes the route to tunisia safer.

Oh, in the end it wouldn't have mattered. The allies would have had the strenght to break the deadlock, especially if the USN and RN were getting serious about it. In the end the African campaing would have replaced the italian one… But not delayed Overlord or the Soviet…

antioher aspect would have been the willingness of the axis to reinforce. Hitler wold have thrown divisions to keep africa going and with a larger theater that would have menta more troops… tunisia terrain is akin to italy, so slogging match, libya is long and without the losses of el alamein axis defense would have been more creditable… so maybe still fighting in africa in june 44? OR more pressure for and Ampibious end run?

Who Knows!

Certianly I think that anyone except rommel would have stopped at the wire after retaking tobruk in 1942 avoiding el alamein.

What if the SAS had sent chupacabras to assassinate Rommel?

They did. That is why Rommel was made Emperor instead of First Consul.

What if Superman fought for the Nazis?

(Not original, I know, but I always had a weakness for the classics.)

Captain America would have kicked his butt.

I think the only real hope for the Axis in North Africa would have been a co-ordinated German Italian attack from the start

Of course Italian pride would not have allowed that

What if the Super Mario Bros. had fought for Italy?

What a lot of what ifs.

All you really need is a General willing to obey orders. Dig in at El Agheila within relatively easy reach of Tripoli, watch the British bang their heads on the ever deepening Pakfront for the next couple of years.

The Afrika Korps was only ever supposed to be a blocking detachment, so any solid and reliable division commander from the French campaign would do.

Now, if Hitler has seriously gone for the 'Mediterranean Strategy' then all bets are off.

If Rommel was replaced he probably would have got Stalingrad to deal with and Von Manstein would probably had to buy some sun factor 12. It would be interesting to see how Rommel would have handled Stalingrad.

Steven Seagal would have handled Stalingrad and North Africa- cos he's 'ard'.

Steven Seagal would have been a liability for whoever employed him. Extra transport would have been required to haul his lard butt around.

That and a Lowboy the carry his Ponytail!

What if Hitler had been accepted to art school and there found a really hot, sybaritic girlfriend?

"If Rommel was replaced he probably would have got Stalingrad to deal with"

In what capacity? he was only a Corps commander in April 41. Might have got a Corps in Barbarossa I suppose, but plenty of other pushy Corps Commanders in the East. Would he even have made Army let alone Army Group commander with all that competition?

What if Hitler had been caught trying to evade paying property taxes on the Kehlsteinhaus?

LOL. I surrender.

Hey, one day I might have as many posts as John the OFM – if someone ties his hands behind his back for a year or two. Probably type with his nose then, or dictate to his personal assistant.

What if Rommel's opponent had been Chuck Norris?

Arrigo, nice analysis.

The Afrika Korps was only ever supposed to be a blocking detachment, so any solid and reliable division commander from the French campaign would do.

In that case they should have sent infantry divisions, not panzer divisions.

I like where this thread is going; serious historical perspectives regarding any number of real possibilities.

You know it's our attention to accurate details that distinguishes our discussions from the ranting of gamur dudez and all of that hypothetical mumbo-jumbo they pump into those silly assed console games!

What if Hitler had made an alliance with Bongolesia?

(someone had to ask it)

What if Hitler rose from the grave and starting hunting down everyone who asked questions about what he might do / might have done? Would he have to get his skull back from the Russians first?

I guess I'd better look out, then.

:-)

What if Hitler really was Zod?

What if every company-sized DAK unit had Tigers in support?

Just an interesting thought to consider……..

All panzer commanders were trained to be aggressive, which is why they preferred a mobile defense where confusion is countered by confusion.

With first one, then two panzer divisions, on hand and the 90th Light which one of them would have taken a static posture?

Sorry, orders or not, I cannot think of one.

It wouldn't be the first time, would it? ;-)

Actually this is one of the more interesting what ifs IMHO. Surely it would depend upon just which general was chosen in lieu of Rommel? There were a number of other equally aggressive commanders at a similar level who could have taken the place of Rommel. Or alternatively a less aggressive commander. Would von Paulus have obeyed a fuhrer order to not retreat from El Alamein?

There were a number of occasions when Rommel was on leave or otherwise absent & AFAIK there wasn't any real change in the approach of DAK under Creuwell & his other stand-ins.

"With first one, then two panzer divisions, on hand and the 90th Light which one of them would have taken a static posture?"

Well, Sperrverbande Libya originally only consisted of a hastily cobbled together panzer regiment. I think the idea was for the Italian infantry to do the static bit, supported by the panzers.

29th Motorised Division managed to hold its position at Elista (saving Army Group A in the process) without feeling compelled to go tearing off towards Moscow.

Chuck Norris…
What about if Churchill has landed Chuck Norris on the Reichstag by glider and he had kicked Schickelgruber's but from the Bunker all the way to LoserFailStrasse.

Sweet!!

Oh oh there's more.
What if the RAF had X-wings during the battle of Britain.

The British had George Sanders and the Germans had Anton Diffring

Now we're down to the serious discussions; this thread just keeps getting better and better!

So what if each platoon of DAK Infantry had a sagger suitcase with multiple reloads; however, each 8th Army platoon had a single portable 3 shot laser?

Hunh? This is getting good now!

What if Chuck Norris had handed out Total Gyms to the 8th Army, and all the Tommies became totally ripped and buff?

If the British get Dorthy would you give the TinMan to the Kiwis or the Poles? And which commonwealth force would get the scarecrow? I'm sure one of the Welsh, Scots or Irish Rgts would be stuck with the Cowardly Lion although that hardly seems fair.

Of course DAK would counter with the Flying Monkeys and I suspect the Italians would have the Winkies because they were decent garrison forces, but not great.

they should have sent their best generals (and troops) to malta. because they didn't, the axis position in north africa was a fait accompli. get over it! ;)

I was attending Mardi Gras with Fidel Castro
Buxom cross dressers
Threw fake gold coins at our feet
As we discussed the fate of the revolution

Suddenly, CIA men dressed in bikinis
Tried to stab us with fountain pens
Fidel blew mustard gas from his cigar
And immobilized the lot of them

19 tequilas later we had a deal
Havana goes back to the mob
And Fidel and I open a chain of
Kentucky Fried Chicken shops

Ain't life sweet?
I feel good

I feel better than James Brown
I feel better now
I feel better than James Brown
I feel better now, how do you feel?

Would the Tin Man have to be painted in a camo scheme, or would the bare metal be fine?

What if the Japanese sent Godzilla to North Africa?