"Greatest Axis general of the war" Topic

My pick will be an odd one: Wilhelm Bittrich. Slam dunked Monty in Market-Garden (nowhere near the best Allied general, admittedly), and was a true gentleman besides (publicly told off Himmler for shooting Allied prisoners).

"Smiling" Albert Kesselring – hs the distinction of being one of the few that was never sacked or relieved. Regarded by his opponents as a very capable opponent paricularly in Italy.

"Papa" Hausser

Henrici, was a true professional and given a lot of tough missions.

Yamashita

Guderian, singlehandedly changed the nature of twentieth century warfare.

Another vote for Henrici.

Not sure how Guderian "singlehandly" changed the nature of twentieth century warfare.

Heinrici probably gets my vote.

I vote Erwin Rommel.

"Not sure how Guderian "singlehandly" changed the nature of twentieth century warfare."

Who else personally oversaw the entire process of forming, equipping, training and operationally employing effective combined arms mechanised formations from beginning to end?

When I look at a modern armoured division, I see a panzer division, not an Experimental Mechanised Force or a DLM or a Mechanised Corps.

"When I look at a modern armoured division, I see a panzer division"

I do not. The panzer division was at best a poorly actioned theory. None ever got to the point of achieving the theory's principles. Germany was lucky that Allied military doctrine was behind theirs and that many of the early enemies were poorly motiviated politically. The "Combat Command" US Armoured Division is much closer to the modern armoured division in terms of doctrine, although there were issues regarding the permanent brigading on units in those early divisions as well.

Rommel. Accomplished an enormous amount with very little. Revisionist history downplaying him is mostly the work of Monty fanboys.

Von Manstein. Creator of the plan to invade France, led an army that captured Sevastopol, attempted to relieve Stalingrad, and held off the Soviet armies in the Ukraine. Not always successful and not necesssarily a nice guy, but very effective at the Army/Army Group level.

Your rod is showing, Thaken.

I think Rommel as well, a forgotten man, as Thaken pointed out.

Pat

Eric von Manstein the master of the "Back-hand Blow."

Arga Warga 05 Feb 2010 4:59 a.m. PST

Your rod is showing, Thaken.

Again? Damn.

Yamashita and Henrici get honourable mentions but I would have to go with Kesselring. Able to play nicely with his allies and keep Rommels half wit treatment of the Italians from causing a major rift. A true combined arms General understanding the relationship of air/navy/land forces. He saw the only way that the Axis could win in the Med was to invade Malta. He organised an attack using German and Italian resources and then bombed Malta to the point were for several weeks the attack would have been almost a certainty. Hitler, always nervous about naval op's allowed Rommel to convince him he could win in Africa without the invasion. Of course when he lost Rommel blamed his lack of supplies most of which were at the bottom of the Med courtesy of Maltas planes and subs. Smiling Albert then organised a text book defence of Italy against superior odds.

Fatman

Von Manteuffel link

Another one for von Manstein.

Kesserling or Manstein hands down…

Rommel? a nutcase in 1940 who would have been better off in a clinic (no it is not my idea, if you read Young biography, aqnd Young is a pro-Rommel, you will discovered that he had broken down after france), arrogant, sometime downright stupid and never to be promoted above division level… said that he had moment of sheer brilliance. But again he was unfit for command.

I agree with von Manstein.

Rundstedt

Guderian built on the work of others before him. The Reichswehr under von Seeckt did much conceptual thinking of what a combined arms motorized unit would look like and how it would operate. Guderian was very influential, but the historical record is clear that many in Germany were working on the issue in addition to Heinz. Many, in fact, were working on these issues long before he was.

The effort first arose with Seeckt's 1922 proposal for a "Division eines neuzeitlichen Heeres (division of a modern army). This was followed up in the 1926, 1927 and 1928 Group Command Maneuvers. The 1932 Fall Maneuvers involved large mechanized forces (for the time period).

Was much work left to be done? Absolutely. And much was, long before Achtung Panzer was ever written.

No disrespect to those who voted for others, but von Manstein is my hands-down favourite, although I think Kesslering is a close second

possibly Kesslering, although his Malta plan was unfeasable due to a change in RAF command on the island at the same time. Changing to a man Kesselring had already lost one campaign to…

I would have to say Hoth though, and give thanks it was
Model who was summoned west and not Hoth or Von Manstein.

Slam dunked Monty at Market Garden, you mean he created the weather patterns?

Manstein for offensive or counter-offensive, Kesselring for defensive.

Von Manstein with a leaning towards Von Manteuffel…Guderian deserves considerable respect, but was ultimately sidelined

My personal favourite – Gen. Munoz Grandes, Spanish commander of the Blue division in Russia. Served with destinction, respected by Hitler, loved by his men.

Later (1950s) head of the delegation which negotiated Spain`s entry into NATO and represented Spain and Franco at the funeral of JFK.

Overall though another vote for Kesslering.

Model: built a line where there was a hole following the destruction of Army Group Center and built a line where there was nothing but remnants fleeing for the German border following Falaise.

not strictly Axis but… Mannerheim.

Kesselring, even though he lost so much. It would have been interesting to see what he could have done had he more resources. Possibley Guderian, but hard to tell, he was relieved for mnot agreeing with Hitler as much as anything. That doesnt make him a bad commander.

I think Rommel is overrated, many others could have done as well or better in north Africa. He just had a great photo presense. And the Party loved him, no bad thing in the third reich.

Von Manstein,had to deal with the boss quite often aswell as the enemy.

Eric von Manstein followed by Kesselring, Rundstedt, Henrici, and Hoth.

Von Manstein

Mannerheim.
Possibly one of the best 'Allied' generals too.

A BIG toss up between Henrici and Manstein for me.

Both very capable, stable, able to think on their feet, and very good under pressure.

While there is no arguing that Rommel was good, he made his share of blunders having others pull him out of the fire, Arras being a good example of this.

Definitely General Yamashita, the tiger of Malaya. He combined smaller, but motivated numbers of troops, with personal boldness…and skill in how he used them. He had to put up with political intrigue at HQ because of the Imperial Guard troops and their 'Royal'connections. But refused to be intimidated.

He understood mobility in difficult circumstances(The use of bicycles in Malaya for example) was still important. He understood bluff, recognized it when used on him and used it to great effect himself.

His orders not to kill, rape, loot and burn, were because he understood the need to keep his troops moving ever onward, and was unfairly blamed for what the imperial Guard units did.

His biggest mistake was probably NOT shooting the Imperial Guard luminaries, and shipping the division home as he threatened.

Mal, first you agree with me about Alexander in the Allied general thread and now you share my admiration for Yamashita (as a general, not as a war criminal).

You have an excellent understanding of WW2 leadership (not that I am biassed).

Erhard RAUS….

Manstein. Actually, Bittrich defeated Urquhart, not Montgomery. Why the Monty bashing always has to be part of every poll on this site astounds me. "Do you like spicy salsa or blue cheese dip?" "Salsa Dude, and Monty sucks!".
For God's sake grow up and read a book or two……..