"Who's buying I-Kore?" Topic

So whos going to buy I-Kore?

My money is on GW

and GW would want to buy I-Kore because?....

Only reason I can think of would be to take a competitor out of the market and sit on the molds. The i-Kore stuff doesn't integrate well into the existing lines, and I don't see GW trying to compete with itself by introducing a new game.

I see no reason to believe they would do so. How many of the other small companies that go out of business every year have they bought up? None that I can remember.

Bottom thin is, they dont need to. They are so much bigger than the next guy they dont need to worry about it.

Well I'd like to.

But unless I sell a kidney by next wednesday I won't be.

Whos in the running, who would want it then.

By the way Hasslefriesian has a kidney for sale people, anyone got a knife.

Might find that nobody wants them?

Rabbit

I have one but it's not sharp. I always cut myself with sharp knives. Still I bet it would do the job, I've done surgeries on rats and monkeys with less.

Thought so....

For a small enough price, GW would be very smart to buy up the assets and bury them. I have represented many businesses who buy up competitors' assets for that very reason. It has to be a bargain, though.

Does anyone know what the asking price is for the assets?

I would think that a barrel load of Kidneys would be needed to be sold, not to mention the problems the new owner would have to be supplied by people they have just screwed over.

What? Someone screwed kidneys into the new owners? All over a miniatures company?

/didn't read carefully

hahahahaha

Good eatin on a kidney.....

Not necessarily anyone.

It would depend on the type of receivership they are under and what the results are of any creditor's meetings. You may find that it remains as an active concern in the medium term if they can sort out any possible criminal proceedings and if the Directors are found to have acted in good faith.

Personally I think the company is toast as the losses look to be way too high to be recovered but until the whole story is known there is no way of telling what the eventual outcome will be.

Tricks

Hasslefriesian would want to buy the I-kore molds because some of his best sculpts are in their ranges. I just received my order of Hasslefree minis from him, and they are excellent. I'm especially fond of...well, all of them.

Excellent! I'm glad you like them. What did you order?

How about the original owners buying it back cheap happens all the time in UK, company goes into administration to get rid of debts then like a pheonix they return re branded, I can think of a number who have done it.

I really don't think GW care about i-Kore...

Assuming that I-Kore is not going to re-organize under bankruptcy (not sure about British bankruptcy rules) but I can't see GW wanting or needing to buy the molds. Certainly not to bury them. a) I-Kore isn't big enough to be a threat., b) GW is owned and run by gamers and despite their perceived marketing flaws (staying neutral here) such behavior would be grossly out of character (pun intended) and, c) doesn't make economic sense in that its an expense that can't be recouped.

Fortunately, and I may be wrong in this, it doesn't sound like the sculptors were left out to dry, otherwise it would be possible for them to demand that the rights to their figures revert to them.

If I-Kore continues, it'll be on very reduced terms. Any expansion of the range will probably be suspended in the near future and new releases will be delayed. The plastic range that got screwed up in China will probably have to be abandoned. Depending on how far they got with the new molds you may see those figures appear in discount stores as "Space Warriors" at $5 for a bag of 100 due to the PRC's non-existant enforcement of intellectual property rights. That's not as far out as one would think as I've seen a poorly made Star Trek:TNG Enterprise-D on a blister pack without any ST logos, but with the same paint job.

Wyatt

To my knowledge, GW is into plastic minis so they would have no use for the molds.

It would not be the first time that a company's molds were bought just to bury them. It has happened before. Often though the molds will resurect themselves.

Destruction of molds is common when out of country casting contracts are terminated.

I would guess a new company will be formed ot maybe a USA company will buy the masters.

What were i-Kore turning over, was it worth anything. Was the range dead before it crashed.

All the figures are copy-right to I-Kore, it will not matter who has them in hand.

Ello Justin,

hmm interesting. How come i-Kore didn't own their own moulds. Is this something historical stemming from the Target Games days or did they get rid of the moulds recently?

How can you run a business like that when you don't actually own the basic intellectual rights and the basic tools to maintain your company?

Tricks

they own the IP, just not the moulds, I believe.

GW wont buy them: i-Kore weren't even a blip on their radar. My money is on one of two things:

1) John Robertson evades Mademoiselle Guillotine once again, and reforms/rebrands the firm...
2) xyston, who were conveniently separated not long ago, will buy the rights, and then employ John to oversee the range.

Either way, it's just deferring the inevitable. It'd be nice for someone else to get the range, someone who maybe knows what they're doing.

VB.

PS - Hasslefriesian: I'll buy your kidney for a fiver. Never hurts to have a spare, right?

I'm just so P.O.d at i-Kore I could spit!

anyone know where in China? just out of curiosity...

I think a mini company that has production capabilities but not much in the gaming industry would be interested in i-Kore's molds and IP. That way they could start up with an existing game that's already been developed practically overnight.

Reaper or Iron Wind Metals comes to mind. Reaper does have CAV, but that's not really in the same market as Void. Reaper's Warlord is supposed to come out shortly which may overlap with Celtos.

IWM really dosn't have anything gamewise other than what's liscensed from Wizkids. If they owned a game system of their own, that would probably make them a bit stronger. I think their reliance on Fasa really weakened Ral Partha.

Another company that seems to be buying up mini companies is Amazon. I'd think adding Kev White's superb sculpts to their catalog would certainly be a boost because I'm not too crazy about anything Amazon currently carries.

Good grief…

Games Workshop is not, I repeat, is NOT owned and run by gamers! First of all, it's a publicly traded company. Second, there's not a single gamer among the directors.

See

link

Not a single gamer among them.

( And if you ask me, that's exactly why they are so successful )

Rick Priestley, Jervis Johnson et al. do NOT own the company nor do they run it. They just work there.

Well, I have seen Tom Kirby playing, although he's probably not a regular gamer.

And it's worth noting that the day to day decisions aren't made by the directors, they are made by senior management, and they are mostly, though not exclusively, gamers.

VB.;

Wolfram and Hart AKA Games Workshop.

GW run by gamers. Ha

Tom Kirby is definitely a gamer. I believe most of the top designers- Priestley, Johnson, Jes Goodwin got significant share holdings at the time of the buy out.John Stallard, the US head guy, is definitely a gamer. While the board are all financial most of them do play to some extent. Most companies that fail are run just by gamers, part of the reason GW is so successful is that they've got business expertise in as well. Business expertise that few other gaming companies could afford.

GW may not necessarily be OWNED by gamers, although I would dispute even that contention, but it is most certainly RUN by gamers. All of those holding managerial and editorial positions (as opposed to the board themselves) are gamers and mostly of the historical kind.

Tricks

Anyone buying I-kore's moulds/IP/ or anything else is in for an uphill battle, While distributors and game stores are willing to try new products, games that have faltered in the past (unless considered "classics") never get much of a second chance. Game stores and distributors are already dumping I-kore, it was never a big seller to begin with and after they go through the process of not being stuck with it it would take a lot for them to try it again other than special orders, reguler stock would be almost impossible to sell. A pity, but the lesson is never trust a swede in business (Felix was involved in Target's demise and now was a major cause of I-kore's) oh well, this frees up some good sculptors to work for Reaper and others..

GW won’t buy them or any of their assets for the same reason Microsoft gives millions to Corel their Canadian competition. Better the poor, poorly run devil I know…

They will probably pick up some of the sculptors who will want a steady paying gig to take care of the bills. Some of the new demon hunters stuff looks like it is influenced by i-Kore style sculpting – if that makes any sense!

From what I understand the owner of i-Kore has done this before and he ends up with everything he needs to get going again.

PJ

I do not think GW is so much into plastics these days. They do their intro box sets some basic models and their vehicles of course in plastic. Other than that I would say at least 90% of everything they release is metal.

That said I find it doubtful that GW would buy I-Kore.

if Hasslefriesian is who I think he is, I would be happy to buy whichever hand holds his sculpting tools :)

plastics production (mould cutting) is so expensive when compared to metal, it seems someone should attempt to take advantage of i-kore's investment.

what i don't understand is why doesn't a company with existing plastic production facilities (tamiya, revell, italieri, etc.) market a line of troops without worrying about rules?

@ jweibe. If I am who you think I am, then I'll be needing that hand.

But you can buy a kidney from me for £20K if you can pay me before close of business Tuesday.

Hasslefriesian:

I ordered Kain, Inga, Tiriel (Standing pose) and Liberty. Of those 4, Liberty is my favorite, followed by Inga, Tiriel, and Kain. I would love to see you do Liberty in Sci-fi costume and weapons. Inga of course, is a great start for your Grymn line, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Grymn. My best friend is very much into the Squats, and He's looking forward to seeing the Grymn line expand as well.

sorry to have interrupted the conversation, and sorry to have to ask, but: who IS hasslefriesen? and how do i see some scuplts?

ok, found "Hasselfree". i like your work.

Is the riveted metal base your own design?

I thought some formr of the employees of the company where taking it over

that's the hope of many so that it gets continued support.

**A pity, but the lesson is never trust a swede in business (Felix was involved in Target's demise and now was a major cause of I-kore's) **

OK...first off, Felix is Spanish, not Swedish.

Secondly, Felix had b*gger all to do withthe ultimate demise of Target: the responsibilty for that falls with John Robertson, and the actual Swedes.

Thirdly: there is, as yet, no evidence against Felix as regards i-Kore, only speculation based on a press release issued by John Robertson, the man who killed Fantasy Forge, Grendel and Target Games.

Fourthly: if Felix is guilty (which I doubt) and the numbers involved haven't been distorted or exagerated (which I am certain that they have), it still doesn't account for the demise of i-Kore. This has been a long time coming, and is a result of many flawed business decisions in the past.

but if you could get tamiya minis for 25% of current costs, (design your own house rules for using them outside tournament play) wouldn't you?

they don't need to offer rules. many manufacturers don't. don't you occasionally look at some component of your computer system and say to yourself,"oh, how i'd love to hack that apart to make some cool terrain."? yeah, yeah, i understand.

or do rules and minis go together for most wargamers?

is the business not available because they don't expect the dicrepancies will be THAT severe, or just that they haven't actually gotten that far yet?

i heard on the 'mini grapevine' (from the same source actually that told me the i-kore had got the receivers in) that Kev and Sally White have dug into their savings to buy the IP rights to the tune of £20K plus vat. Was i-kore worth that much ??

not sure what they are going to do about it/them.....are they going to go into production and add them onto Hasslefree or are they just going to sit on them for a while

any comment from hasslefriesian?

20k for i-kore doesnt he see the legal mess that goes with it? If the moulds are held by others he would have to pay twice that just to be aloud to sell them. Madness, unless Mr Robertson buys it back, its got to be dead for sure.

Apparrently not, as long as he has the IP rights then he can do what he wants with the range.

It would be illegal for whomever has the moulds to manufacture figures from them. If they want to realise capital from the moulds then they would either need to sell them to Kev White to realise some cash or to manufacture'under license' to him. Either way he gets hard currency.

The IP rights is where the money is......not the moulds or even the redundant stock.

If JR was to buy it back then

a) where did he get the cash as apparently i-kore owes loads of money all over the place. according to JR he had to remortgage his house to get the money to start i-kore in the first place

b) If you were a bank, would you back him with his history??

1: actually the rights to the master figures come with the IP.

2: The business is for sale albeit as parts rather than as a whole

3: it isnt available as a whole because they put it into voluntary liquidation so they could resurrect it as a 'phoenix' without even attempting to pay off the debts they had incurred. I think it is called 'dodging responsibilities. they have been considering this since August 2003 and playing games with anyone who questioned their integrity (note to John Robertson.....look up integrity in the dictionary. NOT on the same page as customer service but you can look for that as well if you wish)

With regard to it being in bits, as long as u have the IP it doesnt matter who has got the moulds as if they refuse to sell them to you then they are losing money.they cant produce from them and i dont think there is much trade value in second-hand vulcanised moulds.

I-kore indeed owe money to a number of firms who hold parts of the company.

The moulds for the plastics belong to a company in essex who i am sure would want to recoup some of their loss by either selling them to the new owner or taking a percentage of new business until the mould costs are paid off.

Likewise i am sure to the guys who are holding the moulds to all of the metal figures pre july 2003 and the guy who invested money into the moulds for the resin.

As for the comapnies who are owed money for other services i dont think they will get much of a cut.

So contrary to the above posting...whoever gets the IP rights could stand to make a lot of money if they just follow a few rules that the two johns forgot along the way.

these rules are:

respect your customers/distributors/retailers
respect your employees...they are your livelihood
dont take the p*** with others who may hold grudges.
send out orders that you have taken money for
dont lie to customers/retailers/distributors
dont take expensive holidays
dont stick your head in the sand
dont blame someone else for your mistakes....again
try not to sink another miniatures company