"Dragon Painting Service Warning" Topic

I wanted to post a warning/review for future buyers of this prominent eBay seller of painted figures. I've made three separate purchases from this company, buying French dragoons and a Spanish militia unit to fill out some much needed support. My third [and likely final] purchase was an auction of British light dragoons such as these: auction

Naturally, I was under the impression that I paid for unbroken figures. In this case, the riders had broken sabers prior to shipping because not only was the sloppy glue job obvious, but some genius figures it was alright to ship the figures with wet glue and so some broken sabers were stuck to the foam cushioning. This is the exchange, in reverse order:

Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item 15mm Napoleonic DPS painted Light Dragoon DBr007F Received: Dec-16-09
From: pierredeleclin Expires: Dec-16-10
To: herbertyuki
ItemId: 250505424212
eBay eBay sent this message to Gary S**** (pierredeleclin).
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Buyer has responded to your question about this item
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Dear herbertyuki,

Hello, I'm checking on the status of my order that I've not received. Thanks!

- pierredeleclin

From: herbertyuki
To: pierredeleclin
Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item 15mm Napoleonic DPS painted Light Dragoon DBr007F
Sent Date: Nov-22-09 22:54:40 PST

Dear pierredeleclin,

HI
Please just keep it as gift if you like. we will resend one unit of DBr007F later soon.

Best Regard
Alison
DPS

- herbertyuki

From: pierredeleclin
To: herbertyuki
Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item 15mm Napoleonic DPS painted Light Dragoon DBr007F
Sent Date: Nov-21-09 06:06:41 PST

Dear herbertyuki,

Thanks for the reply. If you want the broken figures back, what address should I use to send them to you? Do you need any pictures also? Thanks.

- pierredeleclin

From: herbertyuki
To: pierredeleclin
Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item 15mm Napoleonic DPS painted Light Dragoon DBr007F
Sent Date: Nov-21-09 01:02:31 PST

Dear pierredeleclin,

HI
Ok sorry for the broken we will send you the replacemnet.

Best Regard
Alison
DPS

- herbertyuki

From: pierredeleclin
To: herbertyuki
Subject: Message from eBay Member Regarding Item #250505424212
Sent Date: Nov-19-09 20:07:31 PST

Dear herbertyuki,

Hello,

I received this ebay item on Nov 14th. Unfortunately, 11 swords are broken off. It would appear that a couple of others had been repainted prior to shipping them to me (could see the glue around the swords and stuck to the foam). With broken swords, they are unusable because the swords will never stay on unless massive amounts of glue are used and this ruining the purpose of buying AB miniatures. I can email you pictures if you like, but can I ship this back and get a replacement? Thanks.

- pierredeleclin

15mm Napoleonic DPS painted Light Dragoon DBr007F
15mm Napoleonic DPS painted Light Dragoon DBr007F
Item Id: 250505424212
End time: Dec-26-09 17:32:36 PST
Buyer:

pierredeleclin (215)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since Nov-21-01 in United States
Location: OK, United States
Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was active.

I just want to advise everyone that if you get damaged stuff, that you shouldn't wait to leave the appropriate feedback and seek resolution because they will simply out wait you. Any further email to them has been completely ignored, but I have sent them this link to this post.

Just trying to make others aware of what you might run into if you deal with them.

Do they charge extra to pose the horses so that they're falling over, or does that come in the standard price?

Allen

16 horsemen for $80…What can I say? These guys are not into the hobby just milking it. No surprise to me.

Things happen during shipping but as a seller you need to be responsible and take responsibility with either USPS insurance or your word.

Cheap prices won't give you great customer service.

Allen,

Not posed that way but a strong wind from the west is too much for them.

Cheap prices won't give you great customer service.

Sorry you had such a bad experience with DPS. Over the past several months, I have purchased about 1500 minis from them and have had a total of one broken sword and one broken flag staff. They usually pack things better than any painting service I have ever used. I hope this is not indicative of problems to come. I notice that recently, they increased their P&H rate from $8 USD USD to $10. USD USD They also dropped the courier service they had been using and are now using the Hong Kong Postal Service. Additionally, the wait from my payment to when I have figs in hand has jumped from four to about six weeks.

Mark

Some times the odd sword breaks off miniatures but 11 out of 16 makes the unit unusable. Sorry to hear about your trouble.

I had some AB figures which were so brittle the bayonets broke off if I tried to bring them up into a "salute" from their bent position. I did this very, very carefully. The problem was the metal AB used at that time. On other occasions I had no problem. It just seems AB get the mix wrong some times. I vastly prefer OG 15s for this reason.

>Do they charge extra to pose the horses so that they're falling over, or does that
>come in the standard price?

They do that for western customers so that we can't threaten Chinese gamers in wargames. -1 on the dice for heading into the ground.

BTW, I believe that the owners of Dragon are Hong Kong gamers. But they don't stay on site.

Neil
reinforcementsbypost.com

In my experience they are very slow with delivery. But the packaging is way superior to any other company. The painting of the figures is superb, even if some things can be a bit incorrect. I put that down to them being painters, not wargamers, and not realizing the subtle differences in some things.

With most of the things Herbert offers, you can make an offer. In that regard I have found him very easy to deal with. Indeed I am waiting on a few new units at the moment.

Correspondence outside that is however, rather spotty and could be due to a language problem with the person who answers questions.

Even though his delivery times are slow, that has not stopped me re-ordering, because the quality of the paintwork is excellent and when making an offer, I've been able to get troops at a reasonable price. The photographs shown on E Bay are always the same ones and I suspect that the service only paints them up when someone orders. Hence the delay.

Because PayPal only give you a certain time in which to lodge a complaint for refunding lost goods etc I put in a dispute notice within the time required. Dragon always answer and in every case I have then received the goods and withdrawn the dispute once I have them.

One thing to watch out for though, is that I have at times received some 18mm figures described as 15mm.

Hello Mal,

I also made an offer for the figures as $80 USD was too much (think I got them for around $60). I'm disappointed they quit replying and didn't make good on it. The fact they sent broke figures to begin with is sort of insulting.

It was my intention to order a large amount of Portuguese figures but I think I'm soured on them after this. Their painting is good overall and I do have a large mix of AB and Old Glory, so they fit right in.

I just hate that DPS spams EBay – its almost impossible to search for anything in the various minis categories without having to filter out DPS – a normal search I do yields 180 hits with DPS included, and 20 with DPS excluded.

AzSteven,

I agree – and its the reason I have decided never to buy anything from them!

I search using the -DPS filter!

I have used them twice. One group of purchases – Scythians went AWOL – they said they'd replace them but never did. The second group was a large group of Thracians (which are superbly painted BTW) which I *almost* didn't receive. It arrived at my PO Box but for some reason was never carded – one of my regular Front Counter Posties found it and recognized my name, so that is how I received it in the end.

Not sure if that means someone else in the Post Office was trying to scam me…and if so, maybe that is what happened to my Scythians(?)

I made an order with them for some pre-paints and the figures they sent weren't the same as the ones in the photos in terms of figure composition. (In the photos there was a mix of 4 different poses and what arrived was composed of two.) When I complained they said they "would do better next time" which is obviously equivalent to "you're ed." I've never had any problems with broken items in shipping, and they are usually pretty responsive. I think something must have happened to your package in shipping. Serves us all right for buying Chinese…

I've had nothing but good experience with DPS. Broken/bent swords, muskets, bayonets etc – no more than you'd expect considering we're talking small metal soldiers.

Axabrax:

Well I mentioned the some of the broken swords happened prior to shipping because of the super glue was already evident.

you are better off paying a bit extra for a local painter and having them hand deliverd..now lets talk about slow payers..

Local painters can be cheaper for small orders where post is a consideration. The well known US/UK painters on TMP are fast and give good service. But make sure that whoever you give your figures to has a good track record. I waited two years for a friend to paint a DBR army. Finally he returned my cash and paid for my figures so he could keep them – he had taken a job and come off the dole!

BTW, I'm local to Bangladesh in case you are in the area.

I am fast and give good service
link

"Broken/bent swords, muskets, bayonets etc – no more than you'd expect considering we're talking small metal soldiers."

I would *expect* ZERO broken items. If they're broken by a ham-fisted painter during preparation or painting, they should be replaced, not glued back together. And it would take completely incompetent packing for painted 15mm figures to suffer any damage in normal mail handling. If the figures are broken, the package had better have been crushed.

Allen

From my experince the bent bayonets on my Perry metals were not a major drama – they straighten up with care. I will admit I haven't ordered anything especially prone to breakages and bending or 15mm, my two cents.

They are well packaged, I'd go as far to say the best I've ever seen, but short of me personally picking them up and packing them myself stuff ups like this come with the territory. Based on this and other accounts they rush packing models which along with the slow resolution in the original post they should be duly taken to task for.

"stuff ups like this come with the territory"

Sorry, but I can't agree with you there (unless you're making a generalization about what to expect from cheap offshore work). When I pack figures to ship, they're packed exactly as I would want to receive them myself.

Allen

Can't fault that approach Allen. I guess I'm more forgiving due to the price point, but mostly because I've yet to have a bad experience with them. It will happen, but not so far.

What was especially tacky was that they didn't even let the glue dry before putting the figures in the foam trays as several sabers were still stuck to the foam. They did pack them well, just for some reason thought it would be acceptable to send damaged figures. I think I'll have to find another company as I don't want to get screwed a second time, especially on a large order.

I have had very mixed quality from Dragon Painting service, my first order was fantastic. My second order wasn't as good but it was posted on their website for a while. My third order was poor and I was overcharged for shipping.

I don't want to write them off completely because I know they can produce cheap, decent paint jobs.

If you want to keep your costs down try Fernando Enterprises. They aren't perfect but they are good communicators.

I've spent literally thousand of pounds with DPS over the last few years on items either bid for on eBay, made the subject of offers for, or commissioned works. These were either 28mm SYW or 15mm Napoleonic. I have to say that I have been nothing but completely satisfied with their service up until the last few months.Ok there is the odd bayonet bent on the AB figures where they weren't quite prepped to the standard you or I would fastidiously take, but thats not a problem.The odd bayonet was a bit weak, but as someone else said thats AB figures for you.The leaning cavalry will straighten up without any tears. I have had the odd figure packed with standards glued on and the glue was still wet so the foam stuck to it, but it comes off with care. Their packaging is still fantastic, especially to get to the UK from HK without Royal Mail putting their hobnailed boots through it. The only problem recently has been with commissions. I think the credit crunch is beginning to bite as they simply repainted British SYW figures as Hanoverians instead of buying the Hanoverians in like they used to do.Also we had a lot of communication problems over uniforms and details.Several have had to be re-repainted There was particular confusion over two units.I asked for a unit of SYW Cossacks and also for them to repaint one of their units of Bosniak Lancers in another colour scheme. In the end I gave up trying as they had painted up a unit of Napoleonic Cossacks in the colours of the Bosniak Lancers instead.After a couple of months of silence I received most of the commission, 3 cavalry units (36 figures),4 foot units (48 figures) and 1 artillery piece plus the Napoleonic Cossacks, minus 3 foot units and 1 artillery piece, in the post unannounced, and without charge for anything!! I have received 2 units of SYW 28mm which I bought on eBay recently okay, though the wait has grown longer to about 2 months now. To be fair they do say it will take time, but I think with the setting up of Wargamepaintingco (sister of DPS) we are perhaps seeing a company in trouble due to the recession and looking for a way around it.Interested to know if that is the case.Meanwhile I shall continue to support them.

IMHO you are better off going with Fernando as the DPS seems extremely overpriced to me….I have dealt with DPS one time and the experience was "okay"…decent figures, slow service, steep prices….it looks to me like the auctions on e-bay are not ready to go lots…in other words, you are looking at a sample lot of figs….they begin painting when you "buy" the sample lot…in fairness to DPS, the figs looked exactly like the pics on e-bay and everything arrived in good order…took about a month to get the figs which was within the 2-4 weeks delivery range that they clearly stated on the auction….

I have had very good luck and excellent service from Reinforcements by post. Neil is very responsive too.

Hi
DPS is painfully slow to reply to correspondence and dispatch. I also suspect they paint the figures after you pay for them, and don't necessarily send the ones you see in the pictures.
I'd recommend RBP, (best by way of "communication" of the OS painting services I've used). The painting is also of a very good standard.
FE are cheap, but communication can be a problem at times. I'd suggest sending a sample wherever possible of what you want.

i use fernando no problemd. You get what you pay for.

Re comments on DPS seeming overpriced, it all depends on the exchange rate at the time. When it was 2 dollars to the pound their stuff was dirt cheap really.Now with the pound sinking it isn't so attractive, but £3.00 GBP for a figure painted to a very high standard, including the cost of the model in the first place at £1.00 GBP each still seems good value compared with some others in the UK. I've not bought so much lately due to the cost of the exchange rate but if things ever go back towards £1/$1.75 or better then I shall. Anyway you can always make them an offer. I find that if you are a regular customer you can get stuff at reasonable prices that way.At the end of the day you pays your money and takes your choice.Its a free world, make your own decision and spend your money where you like.Value for money is in the eye (and wallet) of the beholder.

Guys, I've got to say I'm having a change of heart about DPS. They're dropping the ball big time on an joint order I'm making with a friend. No communications (I know it's Chinese New Year, but this order was made pre xmas) and they're sedning the packages to Italy instead of Australia.

I'm sure they'll make good, and I will report back on that, but until then….

Having just read an item on another forum I googled re DPS there is a comment on there from a customer who states that DPS informed him that Chinese customs sometimes go through the packages and can be somewhat heavy handed at times which might explain the odd broken bayonet or bent sword.Majority of customers seem v pleased with them judging by the feedback.

Hi Guys
Further to my last post, here is a link to some observations I have made in regards to some painting service providers:
FE
link
DPS
link
RBP
link
and finally, MCM
link
There will be some repitition of information, but you'll get a good idea of their work and value for money I think.
Cheers
trailape.blogspot.com

Part of the problem that we have experienced is the way that the initial castings are transported from the manufacturer to the painting service simply poured into plastic bags and then boxed oi foam peanuts that offer only limited protection.

Our painters have to spend a long time straightening bayonets and swords when we receive orders of AB figures. We do our best to protect the models but once bent they are weaker and more subject to breakage later. Obviously, standard bearers, lancers, bayonets and extended swords are the most vulnerable, but also horses and some infantry poses are apt to break from their bases.

Most manufacturers are very good at replacing figures damaged in transit, but of course thus means delay.

Some figures we have found are so vulnerable to breakage that we no longer use them except by special request. I imagine DPS suffer similar difficulties.

John

I ordered in a item in Nov last year, and I have been stalled over time by excuses, apologies and promises to pick extra items from ebay, none of which have arrived. Its now too late to dispute with paypal. Ive sent many emails asking in nice terms what is happening but I am now ignored totally.

DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY.

I haven't had a problem with them

I see that their Seven Years War Figures some of you have mentioned are all individually based. I guess this would be good if you were playing Skirmish, but what if you're play AOR ruleset?

Do you all wind up rebasing the figures? Do you wish they just based them on some widely played ruleset like Age of Reason?

DPS have based figures I've commissioned on any size base requested and with any number of figures per base as instructed. Last year I had 2 problems with them where they didn't follow my instructions on painting some SYW Cossacks (they painted Napoleonic instead) and some Brunswick foot. After a bit of toing and froing of emails I decided not to bother any more. I didn't pay for anything and just dropped the matter. Pictures were sent to me of the figures after painting for approval which was how I knew they were not following instructions.The figures in some cases were just repainted British rather than Hanoverian figures as requested, so they must have some of these units already painted and on the shelf, not just paint to order as stated by some previous posters on here. Like I say I stopped bothering, they didn't chase me about the order, and lo and behold the figures arrived anyway, without me paying a penny for them, one lot about 6 months ago and the rest last week. So I take my hat off to them, after all there was no need to send them, they could have put them on eBay instead and probably got a decent price for them as they were all, in the end (besides the Cossacks being from the wrong era) beautifully painted and all correct.

From january, 1th 2009 till june, 15th 2010 they painted me (and some friend of mine)about 5 000 15mm napoleonic figs (most of it AB) and 150 25mm, so I think I can make a few simple statements regarding the way one can have a makeshit cooperation with them:

- you must have very elaborate painting instructions to give, otherwise you'll get something that may or may not be what you expected

- Ebay is a good way to have "roundabout" AB figures, for not-so-high prices, but you have to bargain! I usually begin at 65% discount, and get between 55 and 40% discount on starting price. (ie: $40 USD plus P&H for 16 15mm AB cavalry)

- Do not expect immediate accuracy regarding painting. Carefully triple-check the photographs they send you, make corrections using windows paint (or anything like it) to edit and correct their photos.Their painters do not speak English, so if it's a picture they won't need an explanation

-Stick to what you want! If you asked something to be done your way around, it shall be done accordingly… But if you forgot something, it's on you (I personnaly have had figs redone about ten times to have a coat's facing blue ad not red)

they have seasons! Especially if your order is more than one unit strong….
-An order send between March and August will be well done, well corrected, and have a good turnover.
-An order send between September and November will be badly painted, need a ton of mail to correct and may never be totally ok
-An order send between December and February will be either forgotten till march, or seem to have been painted by someone's four-years-old baby under severe toothache, pending corrections in march or later

One thing I've wondered is, are they making molds and casting the figures themselves with more brittle metal? The 15mm Essex Huns don't bend back to shape without breaking an ankle or two on the figure.

I just buy small amounts of miniatures at a time. The minute they screw me over they can say "BYE BYE" to me ever buying from them again,…
So far, so good.
I trust BIG orders to either RBP or FE.

"One thing I've wondered is, are they making molds and casting the figures themselves with more brittle metal? The 15mm Essex Huns don't bend back to shape without breaking an ankle or two on the figure."

I've been wondering the exact same thing. They pirate electronics, software, books and clothing, why not figures? Imagine the killing to be made when you're not having to buy figures and then pay to have them shipped from Australia against a currency worth much more than your own. Don't have to really worry about being sued for copyright infringement as who is going to tell?

The DPS chaps are members of my Club so perhaps I can fill you in on a few details.

Sadly one of the two founders passed away earlier this year after a long battle with the big 'C' so this may have affected the speed of response to some queries. I also understand that the vagaries of the Chinese postal service (area offices work on a complicated quota system that might see a package fly several thousands of miles around China before actually reaching the overseas dispatch point) and the customs services in UK/Europe/US (getting more & more picky and opening more packages due to terrorism fears) are making it very difficult.

They're certainly an honest bunch of chaps so I suggest you keep plugging away with the emails if you encounter a problem. Also try and keep your instructions in plain English – the head chap is fluent (after all he plays DBMM and if he can understand Barkerspeak, he can understand anything!) but the girls who answer the emails might not pick up subtleties of language that a Westerner would.

Compared to other companies I've used in the past, DPS is far and away the best. Ok I know the bloke but I really do believe he's as straight with others as he is with those he knows – he's simply a gamer who wants to popularise the hobby as well as make a living.

Hi Justin
Is that really your surname?
:o)
Cheers

"They pirate electronics, software, books and clothing, why not figures? Imagine the killing to be made when you're not having to buy figures and then pay to have them shipped from Australia against a currency worth much more than your own. Don't have to really worry about being sued for copyright"

"They"? – nothing like stereotyping the whole of China (my wife is Chinese so you will understand my outrage) -as to "Pirating electronics" – I think you'll find they are made there by the big companies like Kodak – how on earth is that pirating? What basis have you got to make such an allegation – someone else's vague suspicion?. I have had various puchases from them and the standard of painting is the best I have seen. I have seen comparative painting in the UK by painters who would like to charge £10-£15 per 28mm – anyone who attends UK shows will have seen how much even half way decent 2/h figures are sold for by the traders who attend. Of course there will be issues about postage and delays (we have sent stuff to Oz and had it impounded by Quarantine because of the flocking) but I think that occurs in supply chains everywhere. Thats not to excuse them and indeed I havae had the odd problem with them but always resolved satisfactorily – some of the posts here are (naturally) from local painters trying to of course point out the advantages of "local painting for local people" – but when on the one hand you have people commenting that they are too cheap and what do you expect and others saying they are overpriced (see my comment above) it has an air of those (in the UK) who complain that immigrants are (simultaneously?) lazy, working too hard too cheap, taking all the jobs and sitting on benefit

Why don't you all just paint your own figures? It would seem to me that it's one of the fun parts of being a gamer.

Ah but having the time can be a problem.

Never had a problem with them, all though I paint most of my miniatures. They seem to be well organized, and pack well, and paint very well too. But you always are taking a chance with any overseas company, but I never had any problem with them. I bought alot of greek cavalry from them, and had no problems, and would recommend them.
tom

He also is replacing your broken items, and I am sure you will have new ones in the mail.

FAO trailape – just my internet pseudonym. My first name isn't even Justin!

Who would even bother ordering from Dragon at their current rates? Have you -seen- the prices they're asking these days? Absolutely ridiculous. And the best they'll usually offer is free shipping.

That doesn't even take into account the fact that they're spamming the hell out of ebay listings, and using several different service names to avoid the filters.

Not worth it, in my opinion.

-A.