"FOW: Ost Front or East Front MW Intelligencebook?" Topic

Greetings all,

My question is for those who have bought the recently released FOW Mid War book on the Eastern Front. I have Ost Front, but I am considering getting East Front. If you have seen, purchased or possess both, which one do you like better? Is East Front really an improvement over Ost Front? Is it worth it to make the purchase? I cannot ask this at the FOW forum as FOW groupthink would take over.

Please note: I am not looking for an FOW Bash Fest nor am I looking for an FOW Love-in either. I just want your perspective on the two MW Eastern Front books.

Thanks.

Dude,

In your opinion, is it worth getting? Perhaps that is the question I need to ask you guys.

Eastern front changes the point values of some units dramatically. Infantry and armor stays pretty much the same (+/- 10 points either way), artillery and anti tank drops dramatically. It can change your army comp so I would get it. Luckily, the gaming store I frequent has a store copy that I could look at before I made my decision. It's worth it if you are into tournaments, otherwise, you can live without it.

Tournament/regular player – get it.
Casual gamer – it's not bad, if you can get it with a discount do so.

I found both the new Africa and Eastern Front books to be quite good and with substantial changes – unless you only play a US list or Tankovy.

John,

I like it because it has more company/battalion options. They are also all listed out. In other words, if you are playing Italians in Russia, there is a different list for each type of company, including Alpini. The same goes for Soviets, there are different lists for regular troops and guard troops. Instead of the way it was in Ostfront, where you would just get less points to build with. The same goes for SS, etc.

It is a much more thorough book and the points can be quite different from Ostfront. I will eventually buy the book, but so far I have played four games with lists from it and I like it so far.

I have played a 2100 point German Panzer company and I was able to field 6xPz4G, 4xpz4E, 4 x pz3Jlate, 4xpz2, and two armor car patrols.

I also fielded an Italian Alpine infantry company for a 1500 point game and I was quite happy with my list.

I also fielded a Soviet Tank Battalion, this is where the points change a bit. 615 for 10 T34/42, so you can field 31 tanks including 20 T34's for 1500 points, with 11 T70's.

Soviet infantry is also a lot of fun.

My advice is, take a look at someone else's book first and see if you really need it. I will eventually buy the book, but for now I am using a friend's when I play against a list out of that book. Otherwise I just keep using Ostfront.

So, you know what is best for you. You also know who you play and the style you play.

Chris

I cant comment directly, but……
I do have the old Afrika book, and have looked at the new North Afrika book. I understand the difference is about the same. I have not bought the North Afrika biik because nobody around here is playing midwar of anysort at this time. If I can get a group going then I will buy it.

The reasons I will buy it is that they have speread the lists across several areas, so it is possible to get lists that are much closer to each other. For instince in 1942 the german Sdkfz in afrika only mounted a single barrel 20mm AA mount. In the old afrioka book you could use the quad mount at any time. Now you cant. So if you are a tournement only player this wont make much difference because you can still take the gear just use the later list. But if you are looking to do historical games, then the new book is great.

Also, the points have been changed for some units. An example is that german panzergrenadiers are a good bit cheaper. Of course if you play brits that is not good news. i think in general they have tried to adjust the point based on overall experience with how well the units actualy work in the game. That sort of thing does take a lot of time to figure out. And will never be complete because any points system is artificial. But I think FoW does make a very good try to get it right.

So if you are really into FoW it is a good deal. If you dont play that often, then not so much. I dont have it because I dont really play eastern front, but if i did I would get it.

We liked it simply because it was less ambiguous for variations (e.g. Soviet Guards have a their own list variants rather than having to twiddle with numbers) and nationalities (my son liked how Canadians were broken out). I also like the page references to each option. I wouldn't call it a necessity, but it's a nice to have. If you're after something else specific, it can wait.

- Bob

I admit that Guards Strelk have a warm place in my heart (so to speak). DO they still allow them to take 9 X 82mm mortars of justifiable commie vengeance (TM)? As for Afrika, well Iplay a US Rifles list and that has not really changed all that much (Except bazookas cost a little bit more)…

I'd love to hear what others think. HOw long before they put out a second printing with better binding and cleaned up errata do you think?

My Finns got screwed. The infantry points go up. Historically, that is all we should be. Our tanks, of which we have very few, go down slightly. On the other hand, all the Russian (pardon me, Soviet) points go down.
The net result is that my only historical opponent which I had a hard time beating before, is now more numerous.
One thing that could have helped us was making HMG units Combat Attachments to infantry platoons, but we did not get it, although this IS in the Late War PDFs.
My Soviet foe can now afford Katyushas to pound me with now. Oh, goody.

The list format is much better, though, generically speaking. The Finns are not as limited in Support choices now, but we now have fewer points to spend on them!
Although from a gamers' standpoint this is good, it gives a Captain far more choices than he realistically should. If you thought a mere infantry captain had a fairy godmother in Flames of War before, get the hardcover books. Unless you play Finns, of course.

Yes, yes. I know. Play something else without points and blah blah blah

Like I don't have enough to be grumpy about this morning, I have to find THIS thread.

I have both the North Africa book and Eastern Front (as well as their older versions).

The Eastern Front book isn't *quite* as good as the N.Africa book, but it has separate lists for just about every possible Company/Battalion organization (both Italians and Soviets run in Battalion strength), with better organization of what options are available to you.

Now, if only I could find a source for when the German Divisional Recon battalion got Assault Rifles in any number…

"Now, if only I could find a source for when the German Divisional Recon battalion got Assault Rifles in any number…"

Run that by one more time. Do the aufklarysagepanzergemutlichkeit and spaewifepatrollenkraftmacandcheese lists in "EF" have them? Or are you referring to scout platoons?

(I really need to learn FoW shorthand, like tanko and strelk and strum and airbourne and stuff…)

Allen

By the time MP44s were introduced the only units left with divisional recce units were effectively panzer and panzer grenadier divisions. As far as I can see even the gepanzert aufklaerungs companies were never authorised MP44s.

Bicycle companies in Fusilier battalions were authorised a couple of platoons armed with SMGs. Maybe some of them got MP44s.

Allen, it's akin to WRG Ancients speak.

2HCW = "chopper"
Almughavars = "Moogs"

and so on…

Doh! Never mind about the Canadians. That was Afrika. I meant them OTHER nationalities.

- Bob

OK, like "Lybian" and "the Saheal". Got it.

MP44 (and its predecessors in name) fielding has been recently addressed--again--on the FoW forum:

link

…where we discuss how the assult rifles are rapresented on the Estaren front in FoW. And I even get a designation wrong. It's infectious, I tells ya.

And again: if the subunit considered to be offensive in the grenadier scout platoon, it's not necessarily a divisional asset; could be the regimental reconnaissance platoon.

Allen

Nope, I meant the "Schnell Company" list from Eastern Front, from a Grenadier Division's scout battalion. When combined with the divisional AT battalion, you get an ad-hoc formation called a Schnell Battalion.

It would let you take an entire 3-platoon force of assault rifles… Just the thing for nasty places like Stalingrad, I think.

Just the thing for nasty places like Stalingrad, I think.

Except they weren't deployed during Stalingrad. Not until much later were they deployed. But it would have been nice to have assault rifles in Stalingrad. And some A-10's and a few Super Cobra's as well. :)

chris

"Except they weren't deployed during Stalingrad. Not until much later were they deployed. But it would have been nice to have assault rifles in Stalingrad. And some A-10's and a few Super Cobra's as well. :)"

HEY HEY HEY! Keep that discussion on the Sci Fi boards please. ;P

OK: yep, the "Schnellschwadron" list's infantry is from the divisional fusilier battalion.

Since the assault rifles are an optional upgrade, if you don't think they're appropriate for Stalingrad, or you think sufficient numbers of assault rifles didn't arrive until later, just don't take the upgrade. There's always the assault platoon with SMGs…

Allen

not to bring the thread back to topic or anything…

I have the Eastern Front book that I just got. Since it priced out and expanded my present list, Luftwaffe Feld Kompanie, I was happy to have it. Another army that I'm interested in playing is the Italians, and they get substantially reworked as a battalion force, which is a big difference.

My binding hasn't fallen apart – yet.

Big question is about the cost – do you have something else for the $50? If price isn't an object, and you plan to play MW Eastern Front, then I think it's worth getting. If you are not as interested in tournements and official lists or don't play much MW EF, then you probably want to just keep your Ostfront.

It's a big hardback book. Your mileage may vary but if you are really interest in playing those armies, then I'd say get it, in the long run it'll be worth it.

Or just go and buy a platoon box of tanks from BF, or a kompanie of Panzers from Old Glory instead – more minis or more books??? decisions, decisions… :)

I just picked up my copy recently, and the binding appears to be okay. If you are fielding forces out of that book you really want it, as there have been a few points changes, as well as a few organizational changes. For instance, German Grenadiers can now have honest to goodness tank support (Panzer III's, IV's, ect…), and you can now take 3 StuG IIID's as opposed to the 2, plus the crappy command halftrack. So my recommendation would be to get the new book.

Pfft, air support in an urban environment? No thanks, I'll take extra artillery instead!

And since *my* Eastern Front Germans are from the 101st Panzerkompanie doing duty as Kerberos Panzerjaegers, I can get away with Assault Rifle teams in Stalingrad! link

I guess since a Japanese anime series uses them and wikipedia says its ok, it must be accurate and perfectly historical. :)

chris

Maybe that's how they justify having Tigers everywhere in Africa…

The best I can find on the rifle is field and combat tested in 1942, so no issue to units, just testing. Official issue dates are in 1943 and the gun is issued as the MP43 and then the MP44, the Stg44 is not christened until December of 1944. Yet pretty much the same weapon.

Here is a good link:

world.guns.ru/assault/as51-e.htm

chris