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"WSS French uniforms?" Topic


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3,294 hits since 21 Jan 2010
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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yarr6821 Jan 2010 8:41 a.m. PST

Hi all, Does anyone know the uniform details for the following French infantry units, that fought at Blenheim, Montroux, Lassey, St Segond, Robeque, La Beaume & Streiff.

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP21 Jan 2010 9:13 a.m. PST

Yes, what exactly do you want to know as regards specifics?

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

yarr6821 Jan 2010 9:14 a.m. PST

Coat, cuff, waistcoat, trouser and hat lace colours if you have them.

cirederftrebua Inactive Member21 Jan 2010 9:18 a.m. PST

Please look at :
link
They have a painting section for WSS.
Sorry, have not checked it these regiments are described or not…

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP21 Jan 2010 9:23 a.m. PST

Yes, I have the Hall book so should not be a problem. Lemme see if there is a source online, but if not, I'll send them to you tonight.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP21 Jan 2010 9:30 a.m. PST

Well that was one of two online sources I was going to suggest, the other is no longer available. Only Poitu is listed on the Baccus site, so I will pull the others tonight.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

yarr6821 Jan 2010 9:54 a.m. PST

That would be great thanks!

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2010 4:52 a.m. PST

Be advised that sources vary, and details could change but here ya go. The key is:

coat – facing – waistcoat – trouser – lace

Montroux: red – medium blue – red – red – no lace (white/silver buttons)

Lassay – unknown, flag available

St Segond – unknown, flag available

Robecque Wallon – unknown, flag available

La Baume – unknown, flag available

Streiff – not listed in Hall

Boy, you sure can pick'em. Seriously, as soon as I saw the names I thought this might be the case. Hall lists every regiment by EVERY name they had during this period and uses stuff like clothing contracts from the French archives as references. If he doesn't have it, I've no clue where you might find it. For me, grey-white with red appointments and yellow lace is my default fall back. Sorry.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2010 5:03 a.m. PST

I agree with Bill, use red with yellow lacing. You could use white if you wanted to mix things up. Also, you could do just red cuffs or just a red waistcoat with everything else the gray-white. Since there is no data on these regiments you pretty much have free rein to paint them as you like.

yarr6822 Jan 2010 7:01 a.m. PST

Thanks for the info & advice, i've found out a little more info myself,
Robecque Wallon – name changed to St Vallier in 1704, then dismissed 1714. Anymore info on this unit would be great.

If you could let me know about the flags I'd appreciate it Bill.
thanks again

Personal logo andygamer Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2010 8:44 a.m. PST

Some Walloon information is here:
TMP link

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP22 Jan 2010 9:30 a.m. PST

I'll check it tonight, then perhaps cross check the others for different names.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP23 Jan 2010 1:47 p.m. PST

Robecque Wallon – flag white cross, cantons buff with red triangles.

1688 – Cdr Phillipe-Marie de Montemorency, Prince de Robecque
1691 – Charles de Montemorency, Prince de Robecque
1704 – St Villirr, de la Croix Ct de
1714 – Henri-Bernard de la Croix, Chev de Villier

Fought at Alps 1688, Saffarde 1690, Nice 1691, la Marsaglia 1693, Rhine 1697-8, Germany 1701, Friedlingen, 1702, Briesach Garrison 1703, Blenheim 1704, exchanged 1705, Ramillies 1706, Oudenarde 1708, Tournai prisoner/exchanged 1709, 1710-14 Garrison in Flanders

Montroux – flag white cross, cantons divided diagonally blue (staff) and red, aurore border.

Lassay – flag white cross, cantons divided into 4 triangles buff and green.

St Segond – flag white cross, cantons divided diagonally aurore and green, each canton with a red border on the outside, at center of cross a hand coming out of a cloud holding a sword with the motto IN LILIIS FORTIER

Note: arms of colonel imply a uniform grey with red appointments

la Baume – flag white cross, cantons yellow with a red diagonal band, green border on whole of flag

Note. The original colonel the duc de Noailles also commanded a militia unit with uniform in the colors of his livery, ie, red, yellow and green.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

IR1Lothringen23 Jan 2010 3:18 p.m. PST

There is a lot of WSS French uniform info here

link

IR1

Major William Martin RM Inactive Member23 Jan 2010 4:51 p.m. PST

12monkeys,

What is your source for the Regiment Streiff at Blenheim? I only ask because there is no regiment by that name listed on the OoB that was used for the re-fight of Blenheim that was organized by members of the Pike & Shot Society and Ian Croxall of WarFlag.com, nor on any of the various Franco-Bavarian OoB's that I have found through other sources.

Assuming that there was indeed a Regiment Streiff present, the name sounds possibly German or Swiss, which could make it a Regiment etranger, if Swiss in red coats and if German in mid-blue. Perhaps Belaubre would be the best source, but I know that Hall used Belaubre as one of his primary sources, in which case one would think that it would be in Hall's book.

Bill
Sir William the Aged
warsoflouisxiv.blogspot.com

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP23 Jan 2010 6:10 p.m. PST

That's a stumper for me as well.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

yarr6824 Jan 2010 11:36 a.m. PST

Regarding the source on the regiment Strieff. I found an order of battle for Blenheim, in Military Modeling magazine, August 1989 issue Vol.19 No8. The article was written by Stuart Asquith.
I've got a copy of the Pike & Shot Society and Ian Croxall order of battle, there are a lot of diferances between both, mainly on the French side.
It lists the following French units that I'm unable to find uniform details for, they're La Mathe, Enonville & Silly. So if anyone would like delve into there books for me again,(Bill), I'd be very grateful!

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP29 Jan 2010 5:28 a.m. PST

I'm down in New Orleans helping to build homes for Katrina victims this week, but I'll look these up for you when I return.

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP29 Jan 2010 1:53 p.m. PST

Here's what I pulled from the Hall cd:

1688 Philippe-Marie de Montmorency Prince de Robecque
1691 Charles de Montmorency Prince de Robecque (Brother of above)
1704 Saint Vallier, de la Croix Ct.de (Prisoner at Blindheim)
1714 Henri-Bernard de La Croix, Chev. de St.Vallier
1714 +

Battles and Sieges:
1688 Alps
1690 Staffarde
1691 Nice
1693 La Marsaglia
1696-97 Rhine
1701 Germany
1702 Friedlingen
1703 Breisach (garrison)
1704 Bavaria, 2nd Höchstädt (Blenheim prisoner)
1705 exchanged
1706 Flanders, Ramillies
1708 Oudenaarde, Lille
1709 Tournai (prisoner, exchanged)
1710-14 garrisons in Flanders
Drapeau d'ordonnance:
Robeque: White cross; cantons isabelle with red triangles.
(Du Vivier 124, Robeck Walon)
The red/isabelle colours match the arms of Montmorency.

St. Vallier: White cross; cantons aurore with red triangles.
(Du Vivier 125, Saint Valier)
St. Vallier: White cross; cantons red with blue emblem in
angles of cross. (Fouré after Anna Beek, trophies of the
allies.)

It is difficult to explain the difference in the two flags of St.Vallier. It could be that the original flag was as shown by
Fouré/Beek but after it was lost (at Blenheim or Tournai?)it was replaced by the older design in an attempt to erase the disgrace.

Drapeau colonel :
Unknown.

Uniform :
Unknown.

*******
That's all it says. I recommend you buying this CD which you can get from OMM here in the states.

Personal logo Colonel Bill Supporting Member of TMP31 Jan 2010 5:27 p.m. PST

OK, here we go:

La Mothe d' Hugues – uniform unknown, flag white cross w/ each canton divided diagonally into four triangles isabelle and green (green top and bottom in cantons 2 and 3, left and right in 1 and 4).

Enonville – uniform unknown, flag white cross, cantons divided into four red and white bars.

Silly – not listed. There is a Sillery Regt listed, but this unit was in Spain during the time of Blenheim. There was also a General Silly at Blenheim, but he seems to have been a cavalry brigade/division commander.

BTW, for Streiff, what brigade/division/wing commander did the unit supposedly report to?

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.grouply.com

yarr6802 Feb 2010 8:41 a.m. PST

Inf Regt Streiff, served under Lieutenant General Beat-Jaques Comt de Zurlauben, with the cavalry. They were stationed on the left of Blenheim. The rest of the brigade were Broglie, Grignan, Silly, La Valliere all Cavalry and Inf Regt's La Baume & the infamous Strieff.

mikesed Inactive Member22 May 2010 2:14 a.m. PST

I concur that Silly was there as a Cavalry commander.

The Hall's CD has the Infantry regiment as being there as well but I suspect that maybe an error as I've never found them in any other OOB.

Very annoying as I've already painted them for my Blenheim refight :(

MyKey00 Inactive Member25 May 2010 12:45 p.m. PST

Silly's Regiment was in Montmorency's Brigade, part of Marquis du Rosel's command.

Simon Boulton Inactive Member26 May 2010 9:56 a.m. PST

The Marquis de Silly was the Mestres de camp (colonel) of the Orleans cavalry regiment until December 1704. He was a Major General and the Quarter Master general of Tallards army at Blenheim and following his capture at that battle, was taken to Nottingham as a prisoner in December 1704.

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