"Looking for unusual scenarios" Topic

I'm polishing off the final touches to Blazing Skies and Looking for some interesting scenarios.

Timescale 1930-1949. Location anywhere. I'm after interesting air fights that you have heard of or some weird match-ups that might play well. If you heard of a damaged Defiant fighting off a clutch of BF110's or a Escaping defector in a Uhl with a Dora 9 chasing after it, i'd like to hear!

He59 vs Blackburn Roc…

Avro Anson attacked by a German fast bomber trying out an experimental tail-mounted flamethrower…

Rumanians scrambling to intercept TB3s over the Black sea finding themselves accosted by I-16s (the Aviamatka SPB combination)…

Bv222 vs Sunderland… (in the version I read both popped out of cloud, saw each other and executed a neat turn to starboard but…)

"There were two more kills scored by the leading ace which the Soviets credited, which Kozhedub was more than happy to forget. In April 1945, he saw an American B-17 being attacked by a pair of German fighters. Coming to the bomber's rescue, he fired a burst between the enemy machines and their intended prey, causing the Germans to break off their attack and dive away. Before Kozhedub could pursue them, he spotted an approaching formation of unfamiliar fighters. The leader of the group opened fire on Kozhedub at long range, and the Russian ace in turn pulled up sharply behind the last machine in the formation and shot it down in flames- the fighter fell among Soviet troops on the ground.
Pulling up in half loop, Kozhedub then fired another burst on the leader of the formation, who was also shot down. It was at this point that he saw the blue and white stars on the wings and fuselage of his "enemy". Kozhedub returned to the base extremely upset, certain that his actions would result in a major row with the allies. Fortunately, one of the American pilots managed to bail out, and when asked who shot him down, he replied "a Focke-Wulf with a red nose". Col. Chupikov gave Kozhedub the gun camera film confirming his two Mustang kills, along with the admonition, "Keep this to yourself – show no one"

taken from Mellinger's LaGG & Lavochkin aces of WW2 (p.83-84)

In 1939 France, British Hurricane pilot Paul Richey in his first Combat encounter was attacked by two Morane fighters while over his airfield. With 20 gallons of petrol left after shaking off the French he landed near a closeby town. One of the two French fighters had also force-landed,nosed over and broke its prop. The French pilot quickly call the local police to look for the "German" plane that had landed in the area. When told it was a British plane,his first word was "Merde" LOL.

And in Sept of 42 32 British and Australian Hampdens were flying to Russia to take part in convoy protection. One was shot down by Soviet aircraft. There was also an incident incident where Swiss ME-109s were escorting a US bomber to be interned when a US P-51 pilot noticed what was happening. He thought the bomber was being attacked by Germans and went in and shot down one of the 109s. There was also a RAAF Beaufort shot down by a U.S. Navy PB4Y-1 Liberator near Rabaul on 12 July 1943

And this,

fter coming across limited sources on the incident that happened on the 7th of November, 1944, all I discovered was a report from the headquarters of 866 IAP. In this report, it states that at 12:50pm 12 American planes( P-38 Lightening) attacked a Russian Infantry that were traveling west from Nish. Four of the American planes started an attack on the Russians while the rest of them was keeping watch at 1500 meters. After several rounds were fired, the Russian artillery shutting down one of the American P-38 planes. At 1:00pm, 2 YAK-9 planes took off. At 1:05pm, 6 more YAK-9 planes followed and then at 1:10pm 2 YAK-3 planes also followed. A dog fight broke out between the countries ending with 2 YAK-9 planes being taken down by the Americans and one more by friendly artillery fire. Russian planes and antiaircraft artillery shut down 5 Lightening planes. The P-38 displayed an impeccable ability to maintain horizontal and were were able to quickly maneuver onto the tail of YAK-9 planes because they had a much shorter radius of banking(turn-in). The YAK99 had better ability to withstand vertical maneuvers.

Air Classics Vol. 38, No.8 August 2002

Robert

The Japanese Army captured some P-40s and later operated a number in Burma. The Japanese appear to have had as many as ten flyable P-40Es.[57] For a brief period, during 1943, a few of them were actually used operationally by 2 Hiko Chutai, 50 Hiko Sentai (2nd Air Squadron, 50th Air Regiment) in the defense of Rangoon. Testimony to this fact is given by Yasuhiko Kuroe, a member of the 64 Hiko Sentai. In his memoirs, he says one Japanese-operated P-40 was shot down in error by a friendly Mitsubishi Ki-21 "Sally", over Rangoon

"Date was 14.4.44
Ju 188 F-1 4N+NL of 3./(F) 22 has took off from Riga/Spilven at 14.45.
The shooter was Lt. Lauri Nissinen from 1./HLeLv 24 flying MT-225.
Nissinen attacked the plane at 16.09 and the Ju crashed in Virojoki 16.22. Its crew had jumped but the gunner's (Feldwebel Schwartzenberg)'chute didn't deploy properly and he was killed. Other crewmembers were OK."

I remember reading about 11 Ju-52s that had landed on Hartvikvann in Northern Norway during the invasion in 1940. 1 was able to get off the ice while the others were stranded . The Norwegians were able to chase the Germans away and captured the aircraft. When trying to fly the aircraft to another location the JU-52s were strafed by FAA Skuas. They may have even been attacked by Norwegian HE-115s.
Robert

I have a novel called "KG 200" by Gilman and Clive. According to the authors' note in beginning KG 200 was a real unit and the novel is a what-if postulation of what they might of done. Basically KG 200 took captured Allied aircraft and planned to use them on mission critical raids. IIRC, in the novel they're using a B-17 to drop on Churchill's head.

More broadly though, you could have blue-on-blue type dogfights, with confused Allied flyers fighting their own types. Maybe not what you're looking for, but unusual.

Chris

Ml.Lt. Zizevskii 14 IAP 29/Aug/1945 damaged and forced to land 1 USAF B-29 while flying Yak-9 Source: VVS Russia (Ãîðÿ÷åå íåáî)

"The German Luftwaffe and Italian Regia Aeronautica captured over forty airworthy B-17s and at least four B-24s. We only know the fate of a fraction of these aircraft. We do know that by early May 44, KG200 had at least four operational B-17s (three Fs and one G), and 2 (probably 3) B-24 Liberators, a D and an H (and a J?)."

Here is a good site on captured Allied bombers being used by the KG 200 with a few descriptions on friendly fire incidents.
kg200.org/historyac1.html

Robert

And here is a good one! USAAF P-51s, Soviet Yaks and Bostons and Luftwaffe Me-109s!

"Once, in Romania, we had an interesting experience with both Russians and Americans. We took off on a mission to intercept Soviet bombers attacking Prague, and we counted many American made aircraft with Red Stars, part of your Lend Lease. But then there were American fighters also nearby, and I was above them all by a thousand meters. It seemed that the Americans and Russians were busy examining each other and were unaware that we were around. I gave the order to drop down through the Mustangs, then the Russian fighters, and through the bombers in just one hit and run attack, and then we would get the hell out of there, since there were only the two of us. I shot down two P-51s quickly in my dive, and I then fired on a Boston bomber, scored good hits but it was not a kill. The second element also scored a kill against the Mustangs, and my wingman and I were all right. Suddenly the most amazing thing happened. The Soviet fighters and Americans began fighting each other, and the confusion
worked for us. They must not have realized that it was a schwarm of Germans that started the whole thing! The Russian bombers dropped their bombs in panic and turned away. I saw three Yaks get shot down and a Mustang damaged trailing white smoke. That was my last fight against the Americans."

link

"Luftwaffe Aces" by Franz Kurowski ( Stackpole Militaery History Series) 2004 notes in it's chapter on Heinz Bar pp 46 that just prior to the invasion of the west in May 1940, a Bf 109 of JG.51 shot down the Fw.58 carrying Generalmajor Von Doring wounding him in the buttocks and slightly injuring one of his aides.I guess being shot in the buttocks is more serious then being "slightly wounded". Or does it depend on rank? LOL

April 19, 45 – Pilot Lt. Kenneth Horner 364th FG , 385th Sq. Shot down by Russian Fighters , Stuttgart GE. MACR # 14150 Pilot RTD

1944: 19th June,
602 Sqn Spitfire LE:J
Wt Off E S Doherty
USAAF P-39 Aircobra destroyed over Pionbino. Mistaken for a Bf.109 and attacked.
Refs: AH, AH2, SNZ

23Apr41 Greece
Three Ju-88's of I/LG1 fire on a Bf-109E of Stab/JG77 flown by Ofw Erwin Sawallisch. Sawallisch's Bf-109 is hit and he returns fire killing one of the crew of one Ju-88. Sawallisch is then able to force land at his base at Krumovo. (Reference: Air War For Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41 by C. Shore and B. Cull w/ N. Malizia)

27Jul41 two SB's of the 202 BAP had made a recon. mission into Finland. On return NW of Vyborg they were attacked by MiG3's. Major Sergei Petrovich Sennikov made a force landing. Lt Fedurkin was killed but his crew parachuted to safety.

I hope you can use some of these LOL :). Robert

Thanks for the KG 200 link, I think at one time I looked into it more, but didn't follow up.

speaking of Soviet aces one of pokryshkin's first kills (june 22nd) – flying his Mig back to base he notices an unfamiliar light bomber on a similar course – he intercepts and shoots it down – it was a Sukhoi 2-a new type that had not been publicised to his fighter regiment…

IAF Spitfires vs RAF Spitfires in '47, Egyptian Spits vs IAF Me109 clones (S199s) too… and Egyptian Macchi 205s…

Norwegian Gloster Gladiators vs. German Bf-110s and Ju-52s.

link

OK ignoring blue on blue scenarios.

South Africans in East Africa. Hawker Harts (Well Hartbeestes which were tropicalised Harts) and converted Ju 86 airliners as bombers Furies, Gladiators and a whole four Hurricanes as fighters. One of the Hartbeestes squadrons was returned to South Africa to re-equip with modern aircraft. They got Fairy Battles! Not only that they were pleased with the upgrade, this was in late 1940 long after the Battle had proved a death trap over France. Towards the end of the campaign the fighter squadrons began to receive Mohawks (P-36) to reeinforce the Furies. The Italians flew Cr 32 and 42 fighters their bombers were a mix of modern SM 79 and archaic Ca 133 colonial bomber/transports. The RAF flew an even more motley selection than the SAAF. Fighters were Gladiators mostly, there were even a few Guanlets used. Bombers were Blenhiem Is, Welesleies and even a few Vickers Vincents a bomber that made the swordfish look modern. These were reinforced by Blenhiem Ivs, bombers and fighters(snigger), and some Martin Marylands.

Both forces were fighting at the end of a long supply line and were very much sucking on the hind tit. Contrary to their popular reputation the Italian pilots fought hard for as long as they possibly could.

Yugoslavia and Greece
The Yugoslavs flew a mix of fighters, Bf 109Es, Hurricane Is, Furies and home produced IK-2 and IK-Zs. Bombers were SM-79, Do-17 and Blenhiem Is. They faced the might of the Luftwaffe who threw massive attacks their capital. The Yugoslav fighters defended their airspace furiously but to no avail. Their bombers launched several attacks on the advancing Germans with a few minor successes.

The Greeks flew small numbers PZL-24 and Bloch Mb 151 fighters with Battle and Blenhiem IV bombers against vastly overwhelming Italian forces. They were barely holding their own and were soon reinforced by several RAF units Gladiators and Blenhiems (Mk I bombers and Mk IV bombers and fighters) with support from Egypt based Wellingtons. Later as the RAF squadrons re-equipped with Hurricanes the passed on their battle weary Gladiators to the Greeks. At the same time as he invaded Yugoslavia Hitler attacked Greece and both the Greeks and the RAF were overwhelmed.

There are several minor air forces which supported the Germans on the Eastern front especially during the first 18 months of the conflict. Rumanian's with their PZL He 112 Bf 109 and Hurricane fighters Hungarians with Fiat Biplanes and Re 2000 monoplanes are just a few.

Try the following two links to a truly great website Uncle Teds

Minor Air Forces
uncleted.jinak.cz/minoraf.htm

Campaign Details
uncleted.jinak.cz/altcamp.htm

Oh and check out the Chinese against the Japanese and the Football war in 1969

Fatman

Oh sorry the Uncle Ted site is aimed at players of J D Websters Fighting Wings games but the information is good for any game.

Fatman

trying to see why this thread hasn't popped to top

Fatman

Thanks so much chaps! theres some really interesting ones there. Escpecially like the Bostons Yaks and Mustangs. I'm redaing Air War in East Africa at the moment so those Hartebeests and Battles are looking like fun.

I must admit, I have over 500 listings for Kites in the rules at the moment, but the Hartebeest isnt one of em. (Got Furies and Wellesleys!)

In WWII in the Pacific, there were cases where dive bombers were launched from carriers to clear the decks for fighters, and which then tried to defend their carrier against incoming Japanese attack planes. A dogfight between a couple of Dauntlesses and a couple of Type 99's might be interesting.

There were also instances of long-range bombers getting into scraps with hostile long-range bombers. Sunderland vs FW-200, or PBY vs H8K, for instance.

Finally, there was a bizarre case where a B-29 crew had bailed out of their crippled bomber, but the plane kept flying, straight toward Iwo Jima. Someone had to shoot it down before it picked its own final destination, and the nearest plane was a P-61 night fighter on a training run.

Cke1st

What a brilliant scenario for a solo game! The Black widow can muster up 12 damage points in Blazing skies so two good full bursts will destroy it. I might make it a point interception so that timing the climb just right will make the difference between success and failure.

Many thanks

Heres a few snippets of SBD Dauntless kills info.On 20 Feb 42 a SBD from VS-2 operating off the USS Lexington scored an aerial victory against the Japanese. It shot down a G4M1 bomber. Another SBD finished off another G4M1 that had been damaged by a F4F Wildcat. Some SBDs were also used for Combat Air Patrol work too. Also LtJG John Leppla and his aviation radioman/gunner John Liska are credited with having downed 7 enemy aircraft during the Battle of the Coral Sea on May 8th, 1942, while flying scout duty in their SBD-3. Some accounts put the total at 5 aircraft.The SBD was credited with 138 victories in air-to-air combat. The breakdown was 107 fighters and 31 bombers; carrier-based SBDs destroyed 75 fighters and 31 bombers; land-based SBDs destroyed 32 fighters and 0 bombers.

Robert

A sad blue on blue – the Battle of Barking Creek – Spitfires Vs Hurricanes link

I recall reading of a duel between an American AOP & a Fiesler Storch in 1944-45, both pilots using handguns on each other. Google to the rescue! link

USN/USMC confirmed victories for non-fighter aircraft (not including the SBD's 138) – I suspect that most of these were also credited to gunners:

PB4Y Liberator/Privateer – 306
TBF/TBM Avenger – 98
SB2C/SBW Helldiver – 43
PV Ventura – 20
PBM Mariner – 16
PBY Catalina – 9
PB2Y Coronado – 8
TBD Devastator – 6
SB2U Vindicator – 6

For a truly one-sided fight:
"the Battle of Los Angeles"
link

An all-night battle that the Japanese may or may not have participated in. Perhaps ballons, or allien foo-fighters?

not sure how to turn it into a scenario…maybe scramble to intercept a bogie and the oposing player doesn't know if he is playing floatplanes or flying saucers until the range is closed. UFO's could have strange victory objectives unknown to the defense: land in Griffith Park and pick up a passenger? submerge in the LeBrea Tar pits? kidnap Betty Grable? Circles could be moved randomly around the table representing searchlight beams, planes/ufos coming under fire while illuminated.

Thanks Kaos and Paul.
In the original BSFC i was doing fantasy aircraft with little interest so i'll skip the UFO's thought it would be a fun scenario.

Kaos, thats mighty interesting infomation. I once had a series of recurring dreams where , as a catalina gunner , i shot down 12 JU88's. It would appear now that this did not happen?

Most welcome Tommiatkins. Here is a list of captured Allied aircraft flown by the Italian Regia Aeronautica during WW II
Could make for some interesting match ups if they were encountered. Robert

Amiot 351
ANF les Mureaux 113/117
Bloch 152
Bloch 210
Breguet Bre 521 Bizerte
Breguet Bre 693
Bristol Type 142M Blenheim
Bristol Type 156 Beaufighter
Bucker Bu 131 [ex-Jugoslav]
Fairey Swordfish
Farman F.222
Gloster Gladiator
Hawker Fury
Hawker Hurricane
Liore-et- Olivier LeO 451
Lockheed P-38 Lightning
Loire-Nieuport LN 410
Morane- Saulnier M.S.230
Morane- Saulnier M.S.406
North American NA-57
Potez 63.11
Rogozarski PVT
Rogozarski SIM-XIV-H
Zmaj Fizir FN

link

Now I wouldn't blame him for shooting down a comrade flying in a enemy plane LOL.

" Found this quick reference in a long and interesting inteview to Italian ace Luigi Gorrini, talking about his war from 1940 to 1945.

It seems there was another pilot who was riding a captured P38

D. Quindi a difendere Roma non c'erano che una sessantina di aerei?
R. Sì, c'eravamo solo noi con in più qualche aereo della notturna a Centocelle, ma poca roba. C'era Rotondi che volava con un Lighting che era stato catturato agli Americani e momenti lo buttavo giù io, sta testa di cavolo…

[about defense of Rome, 1943]
Q. So in defense of Rome there was only about sixty airplanes?
A. Yes, there was only us [III Stormo, with Macchi 202 and some Bf109]plus some nightfighter in Centocelle, but very few. There was Rotondi who was flying with a captured Lightning, and I nearly shot him down, that ******* of a guy… [note: 'testa di cavolo' can be translated with '*******', but is to be intented in a friendly and sympathetic view]

Full interview is here, for those who understand Italian (maybe if somebody is interested I could translate it in a lonely dark night..)

link

link

Here is an unusual one :).

"The maximum speed was increased in respect to the SM.91 but still did not meet the requested airspeed or armament. It had a complex & advanced structure which contributed to difficulties in producing a working prototype. The prototype MM.531 flew for the first time in October of 1943 & logged a bit more than 21 hours of flight time. In March 1944 it was mistaken for a P-38 Lightning & attacked by a Macchi C.205. The aircraft survived by performing evasive man oeuvres, but it was so badly damaged that the craft was grounded for months."

link

Cripes Kaos. Well done! That one is obscure to the extreme! Love it!

Thanks. I'm glad you like it Tommiatkins :). Im still looking around for a few more LOL. Robert

I don't remember exactly where in Scandinavia, probably Norway, some Gloster Gladiators dueled with Bf110s and did quite well.

I had also read somewhere where a Belgian Fairey Fox shot down a ME-109.And Belgian Fiat CR.42 Falcos shot down 4 Me-109s. Robert

I know its been awhile but here are some more I found :). Robert

"For USN F6Fs the only action over Europe transpired during the
invasion of southern France in August 1944. USS Tulagi with VOF-1
(Lieut. Comdr. WF Bringle, USN) and USS Kasaan Bay embarking VF-74
(Lieut. Comdr. HB Bass, USN), both squadrons, operating F6F-5s,
provided coverage for the landings. VF-74 also operated a 7-plane
F6F-3N night fighter detachment from Ajaccio on the island of Corsica.
On the day of the invasion, 15 August, VF-74 flew 60 sorties, VOF-1,
40 sorties, all ground support missions.

On the morning of 19 August, a four-plane division of VOF-1 pilots
spotted the first German aircraft, three He-111's. The Americans were
too short on fuel and could not attack. Two of the Americans were
forced to land on HMS Emperor due to their fuel state. Later that day,
two He-111's were spotted by another VOF-1 division and were promptly
shot down, this occurring near the village of Vienne. Lieut. Poucel
and Ens. Wood teamed up to bring down one and Ens. Robinson brought
down the second. Soon thereafter, in the same vicinity, a third He-111
was shot down by Ens. Wood. That same morning, a division of VF-74
pilots led by Lieut. Comdr. Bass brought down a Ju-88 and in the
afternoon another division attacked a Do-217 with split credits to
going to Lieut. (j.g.) Castanedo and Ens. Hullard.

On 21 August, pilots from VOF-1 shot down three Ju-52 transports north
of Marseille. Two were credited to Lieut. (j.g.) Olszewski; one went
to Ens. Yenter. Operating for two weeks in support of the invasion,
these two squadrons were credited with destroying 825 trucks and
vehicles, damaging 334 more and destroying or otherwise immobilizing
84 locomotives. German aircraft shot down: VOF-1: 6, VF-74: 2.

Although the two navy squadrons lost 17 aircraft combined, 13 were
lost to ground fire and the others were operational accidents. None
were shot down by German aircraft. Among the 7 pilots lost (2 from
VOF-1 and 5 from VF-74) was the CO of VF-74, Lieut. Comdr. H. Brinkley
Bass (USNA 38), killed by antiaircraft fire while strafing near
Chamelet on 20 August."

The Slovakian Insurgent Air Force flew ME-109s in the 1944 uprising. I don't know if they flew and shot down any German ME-109s though. There is this,

"At 3:30 p.m. on September 10, 30 German bombers took off from Malacky field and the first wave of six Junkers Ju-87 Stukas attacked the anti-aircraft positions at Tri Duby. A second wave of six Ju-88s and 12 Heinkel He-111s bombed the airfield, followed by six more Stukas, then six Messerschmitt Bf-109s, which strafed the Slovaks with cannons and machine guns. The only Slovak airplane to take off, a Bf-109G-6 flown by Warrant Officer Rudolf Bozík, had no ammunition, but Bozík did his best to break up the German formations before being driven off by the six German Bf-109s. When the Germans departed, the insurgents were left with only four operational aircraft -- one Bf-109G-6, a B-534 and two S-328s -- but they repaired the bomb-damaged runway and fought on with what they had."

Robert

On 20 March 1940, a G.1a from 4th JAVA forced down a RAF No. 77 Squadron Armstrong Whitworth Whitley when it strayed into Dutch air space. Robert

08Jun44 St. Lt. Vaslii Ivanovich Arkhipov (8 victory Ace) of the 18 GIAP was returning from an attempt to intercept a FW-189. Lt. Maurice Challe of Groupe Normandie attacked the two Yak's approaching him head on believing they were German. The second attack by Challe brought down Arkhipov's Yak which resulted in his death.

Robert

23Apr41 Greece
Three Ju-88's of I/LG1 fire on a Bf-109E of Stab/JG77 flown by Ofw Erwin Sawallisch. Sawallisch's Bf-109 is hit and he returns fire killing one of the crew of one Ju-88. Sawallisch is then able to force land at his base at Krumovo. (Reference: Air War For Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41 by C. Shore and B. Cull w/ N. Malizia)

Robert

There is always the battle over Olso in 1940 Gladiators v. Bf110 escouting Ju-52's

I really liked this one about a Fokker C.X that was attacked by a Bf110 near Sassenheim. Robert

"We learned our lesson in the morning, so we le the German fly straight to us until the moment we thought he was going to shoot. At that moment we made a short 90° turn, so that the Messerschmitt passed us at high speed and his colorful tracer rounds disappeared in nowhere. The bell-tower of the church in Sassenheim showed to be an excellent orientation point and we kept on flying around it in short circles while the German was orbiting around us in a wide elliptical way. The flower breeders in Sassenheim were leaning on their shovels and looked at the show, while the tracers flew around their heads. After 15 minutes, the German pilot had enough and disappeared. Never will I forget that the whole tower in Sassenheim is made of solid bricks."

"However, prior to this, the Slovaks were forced to defend their country just after declaring independence as the Hungarians were intent on incorporating Ruthenia (a.k.a Carpatho-Ukraine), which had itself declared independence from Slovakia when Slovakia did the same from Czecho-Slovakia, as well as more of Slovakia than they had gotten from the First Vienna Award of 1938. The revanchist Hungarians hoped to conquer both and restore the pre-1918 Kingdom of Hungary's northern border.
The Hungarians attacked Slovakia proper on 23 March 1939 after occupying Ruthenia against minor resistance. The SVZ could only muster some 20+ B-534/Bk-534 fighters and 20-odd S-328 observation aircraft to oppose the invasion. Even those numbers were generous given the struggle to create the SVZ. But a number of Czechs volunteered to delay their departure to defend Slovakia which proved crucial to the ability of the SVZ to put aircraft in the air, even if the results were less than satisfactory.
The Slovaks flew a number of reconnaissance and attack sorties over the advancing Hungarians on the first day at a cost of two escorting B-534s shot down and five additional aircraft damaged by anti-aircraft fire.
The first aerial encounters occurred the next day as the Slovak aircraft were intercepted by Hungarian Fiat CR.32bis biplane fighters. These didn't go well for the SVZ as it lost five B-534s and two S-328s shot down and a number of additional aircraft damaged. The Slovaks claimed 2 CR.32s shot down, but the Hungarians claimed zero aircraft lost for nine shot down. The truth will probably never be known.
The Hungarians stopped their advance on the 25th of March after Germany's guarantee of Slovakia's borders became effective, but some 400 square miles of southern Slovakia were ceded to Hungary."

link

I have rad of a coupla other engagements involving US Navy PB4Ys in Europe. One involving PB4Y and a He-177 and a PB4Y and a Fw-200. Robert

A good friend of mind posted this about the PB4Y kills. Robert

"VPB-103 was operating PB4Y-1's at the time.

This was one of 372 shoot downs credited to USN VP/VPB squadrons. All but six were one Japanese type or another, the remaining six were German: one Do 217, four Ju 88, and the aforementioned He 177. Five of the six German aircraft credited were shot down by gunners aboard PB4Y-1's, one of the Ju 88's by gunners aboard a PBY."

Thanks for those Kaos :)

I have yet to test Bomber vs bomber so that might be a good scenario with the Catas vs the Junkers.

I fought a four plane battle on Tuesday, Corsair and Tomahawk II Vs Zero A6M3 and Captured Lightning Model L. The P38 was the last one standing with no ammo left and on its port engine only. It landed safely like that with shot up underkrackers and no Flaps. The pilot now has to wheel his gongs about in a cart.
The P40 did well acheiving nearly 600MPH in a dive and the wings stayed on!

Most welcome again Tommiatkins :). I found the Bomber to Bomber fights very interesting and am thinking of some scenarios for them. As you can tell I'm keeping an eye out for other unusual engagements. The P-38 being included in yours sounded fun LOL. Robert

"Eastern Solomons – Aug. 24, 1942
On the second strike, the torpedos struck the light carrier Ryujo and helped to sink her. And ARM3/c C. L. Gibson, a TBF gunner, claimed a Val dive bomber. In exchange, seven Avengers were lost. "

Robert

link

Vals never were that much cop in the role of a fighter.
Plus TBD's seem to keep flying when they have no wings or engine left. Must have been Flack or Zero's that killed em.

I had totally forgotten this one. A good "What if?" The good ole YB-40 Bomber Escort Flying Fortress :). Robert

What the Flip!

I had never even heard of that one! That would be some sort of nightmare to game. The shooting phase for that Fort would last about 5 minuites!
I love the bit about the Bomb Bay being turned into an ammo dump.
Nose 2/20/9
Chin 2/20/8
Cheek left 1/20/6
Cheek right 1/20/6
Front top turret 2/20/9
Aft top turret 2/20/13
Ball turret 2/20/4
Waist guns Port 2/20/8
Starbord 2/20/8
Tail guns 3/20/8

Thats Insane.

LOL And there is of course the XB-41 Liberator Gunship too :). Robert

link

Then there is the supposed engagement between a YB-40 and a captured P-38 flown by an Italian Pilot. Robert

PDF link

You have got to be Joking?! Sheer brilliant obscurity!

I thought last week at the club when I had a Zero sticking a Corsair and a P40 that it was a bit weird but possible. Then when an extra player arrived and wanted to join in, I thought I threw reality out of the window by saying, "OK your In a Captured Mustang, the Zero is trying to escort you home"But Bomber gunship vs captured heavy fighters crewed by Italians??? What the Heck!!!

Yep. Like I said its was supposed to have occurred. But IIRC it was debunked. But It would make a great scenario. Especially if the gamer with the YB-40 crew was unaware that the P-38 wasn't a friendly ;) LOL. Robert

After I finish my Operation Torch stuff I'll be dealing with Operation Menace (ordered the rest of the minis just today from Larry). Brit Skuas trying to keep Vichy French H-75's off the Swordfish long enough for them to torpedo the French BB Richelieu. Meanwhile French Martin 167's are off to spank the Brit bombardment force. I'm not like the other kids…