"New to WWII Gaming: Best rules for Beginners" Topic

Sorry if this is a repeated topic, if it is please direct me to the appropriate thread. I would like to start gaming this period and was looking for advice on which set of rules might be best/simplest to start with.
Thanks

Flames of War, because it will be easiest to find others to play against and show you the rules.

Flames of War is pretty easy for beginners, with eough "national characteristics" to please.
It is not cheap to get into, with the main rules going for around $50, and the supplements to play the period of your choice running the same.
Models can run from expensive (around $12 USD per tank) to cheap ($22 for a bag of 3 tanks from Old Glory, but with a 40% discount for Old Glory Army Card holders, so that's $4.40 USD per tank…)

FoW is not everybody's cup of tea, but I like it. Some hate it so much they get deranged and irrational.

It's a little early for popcorn. Donuts, anyone?

Allen

Some hate it so much they get deranged and irrational.

I do not!

What John said. It is easy enough to play. There is a large community out there so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding opponents.

To me, it can be a bit pricey but if it is your only game, what the heck.

I'd choose Disposable Heroes. Fast, easy to play, quick to learn, well supported online, and fun. Plus, I like skirmish games.
If you wanted cheap startup, go with plastic 20mm bendy Airfix type minitures and prepainted Forces of Valor armor. CHEAP.
Cheers.

Everyone has their own favorites and for various reasons. I am partial to Rapid Fire myself.

However, one of the best, and cheapest ways to get started is to look for a convention or game day in your area. There are usually several different sets of rules used and many games are open to beginners. Chance to find out what you like before investing.

Flames of War is a good start.

Their books teach you a bit about the period
Their products are sold in convenient units
The rules are easy enough
You can find other people who play

After FoW, you can take your miniatures, expand on them if you want, and then go play a more realistic game.

Depends.

Flames of War is probably a good start due to the large amount of players and fairly simple rules. It's a bit too gamey for my tastes, though.

If your looking for smaller battles with a more historical lean, try Disposable Heroes from Iron Ivan. On top of the rules being easy to learn and teach, the game is complete. Name an tank or troop type and they more than likley have it. That's something I find lacking in most other similar games.

Depends a bit on what scale you want to play in – if you like skirmish games, I second the vote for Disposible Heroes – if you want a larger game, FOW would be good, especially given the large number of players and on-line material

I use Spearhead, but I like grand tactical

If you're not a part of a gaming group or club then find one.
See what they're playing.

Down our club it is common for there to be games new people can just join in.
I have always assumed that was a common approach for wargames clubs.

It's a little early for popcorn. Donuts, anyone?

I think I will have some apple tart, myself. Possibly with sour cream and powdered sugar. And a cup of hot chocolate.

I like Rapid Fire.

I started with the free rules "Rapid Fire for Rookies", liked them and bought the full book.
PDF link
rapid-fire.uk.com
If you are starting you could use the Valiant 1/72 figures.
valiantminiatures.com
I play 28mm using Artizan and Crusader figures.
artizandesigns.com
crusaderminiatures.com
Regards
Mick

I cannot stand it!!!!!!

First decide if you want to game 'skirmish' or higher levels of command.

Then consider if you really want 'simple'. You see, simple is not always 'good' nor is it 'best'.

FOW: While widely played, it requires big investment in terms of $$$$ and to a lesser extent, time. FOW suffers from the old Warhammer -- you need to keep buying the latest updates in order to stay current.

There are a number of 'skirmish games' -- most of which are really small unit games.

True skirmish games are things like Nuts! and Patrol. Both have a role playing component in that one game can carry over to the next. Patrol has some pages devoted to scenario generation which might be of value to someone new to the period.

Small unit games abound. Right now my favorite is Rules of Engagement. RoE has a squad leader feel to the turn sequence -- very simple with small numbers of units. Gets more involved when you start enlarging the game and play with more (more diverse kinds of) units. The Tank rules in particular are a hoot! Doubt you will find stuff like this in any other rules.

Avoid game that claim to be 'fast play' and 'simple'. Too often these are nothing more than set-em-up knock-em-down games that essentially eliminate any opportunity to engage in the tactics of the period because the casualty rates are so high any attempt to move is suicidal (but so is staying put -- only difference is that you may get to shoot back) -- from my perspective -- these rules are a waste of time.

mjc

You can download Chair Reaction 3.0 at:

link

These are essentially the same rules as NUTS without the period flavor. You can try before you buy.

mjc

"Memoir '44" boardgame from Days of Wonder. Comes with plastic miniatures so you can play any of the included Western Europe scenarios w/o needing anything else. There are expansion packs that will add the Pacific, Eastern Front and North Africa theaters to the basic game system and a scenario book has been published also.

I'll throw my hat in for Rapid Fire for Rookies. I also lik DH, but that is a bit more detailed.

Hello Pivado – If you are not in a group, you will probably looking at fielding two armies yourself and so you might be looking at keeping the numbers of figures per side to around 80 or less.

With this in mind, I would consider Rapid Fire for 15mm / 20mm, PAnzergrenadier (second edition) for 10/15mm, PBI II (from Peter Pig) for 15mm and Blitzkrieg Commander for 10mm / 6mm.

Of course there are loads of other rules. You could do worse than phone caliver books (UK) who stock a wide variety of rules and they know enough that you could chat with them and get a fair recommendation.

one thing you might like, is a ruleset that is fully complete in it's own right (i.e. it has all army lists etc, so that you are not having to buy multiople volumes …. one of the reasons why I like PBI II).

Good luck, it's a very rewarding period.

Personally I introduced my boys and their mates to WW2 through the tried and trusted Charles Grant and his "Battle" rules from the 1970s. Easy to use and pick up, though they do play with my carefully (if poorly) painted kit; they now also have their own with cheap plastic figures and Hat quick build tanks and trucks.

At the end of the day its all down to what you want out of your gaming. The level you want to play and what your mates are doing, in over 30yrs of gaming I`ve seen literally dozens of sets of rules, each has its good and bad points, its own supporters and detractors……….

For Skirmish I "third" NUTS! -- very playable, you can get the core rules for free from Two Hour Wargames (Chain Reaction 3.0) and they have a number of books in print and more coming for WW2. NUTS! is based on the Chain Reaction rules -- it's not "IGOUGO," each figure/unit reacts according to the situation it faces (if fired on does it return fire, dive for cover, etc.), historical tactics work well and games can be played in 2-3 hours to completion. Check out their free minigames at:

link

Each one is based on the free CR 3 rules and lets you test run the system before buying -- Dog Soldiers (based on the Horror movie of same name, Gangsters, etc).

For Operational/Divisional gaming I prefer Panzer Korps by HR Games.

Honestly, no matter what ruleset you seem interested in, probably the best thing to do is find out what the local people are playing. It doesn't matter if you like Nuts!, but everyone else is playing Command Decision.

In this case, it is easiest to try to find out what everyone else is doing, and join in.

Many thanks to all, great input. That's why I asked.
Pivado

I use Firefly and Stuart Asquit stuff.
Do no forget the collection aspect of this hobby if you gather hundreds of tiny 1/72 or smaller ANTS you will be left with useless tiny things,in my experience it is best to have a go at this hobby in larger scales like 1/48 so as to build you a proper collection to be proud of,size in this case matters as it is great to look at good miniatures in a good size!!!
wargames48.blogspot.com

AE-WWII is a good skirmish game. Not truely historical WWII as it's Wierd War II. However we've played detachments full of non-wierd stuff and the game play is good and they even hold up well against the wierd stuff.

It's a skirmish game, so you probably need about 6-12 models for a typical detachment. Not too many vehicles involved, mostly jeeps and some scout cars. You can play with pretty much any 28mm WWII figures, and if you've got a hankering for some of the wierdness you can always pickup a Cyborg Ape or vampire or something.

Honestly, no matter what ruleset you seem interested in, probably the best thing to do is find out what the local people are playing.

Not really.

So the locals may be playing game X at the moment. What happens when they stop? Or you move? Or worse, if you buy the US and they have Germans and you or they leave? It happens on a regular basis so be sure to buy both sides. This way it's also easier to introduce other players into the game.

How often will you be gaming with the locals? Once a week? Once a month? Better to get a game you like and can be played solo or even better with everyone on the same side. Otherwise it will end up in the closet.

I'm not being negative towards any game or pushing NUTS I'm just being realistic. Think about what you want in a game, not what everyone else wants, and then ask around.

John the OFM wrote:

FoW is not everybody's cup of tea, but I like it. Some hate it so much they get deranged and irrational.

Other people become deranged and irrational in different ways.

Some become what are known as "fanboys" and will recommend FoW to anybody asking about WWII rules without giving any consideration whatsoever as to what the person asking the question is really looking for.

Pivado, you really need to say a bit more about what your tastes in wargaming are before anyone can make a sensible suggestion. There are hundreds of sets of WWII rules out there.

All the rule sets mentioned here are worth a look (I have them all), but…you do need to sort out Skirmish vs larger (and at what level, platoon, regiment, division) you intend to game. And at what scale. Then you can narrow it down. Skirmish (all scales but 25-28mm or higher): Patrol, Nuts, Disposable Heroes, Battleground WWII..Higher levels (15mm) FOW or Rapid Fire,or Ultra intense man to man (54mm) Final Combat…Do some research.

Hundreds?

Like others say – What level are you looking for. If you want low leve actions- where you command a platoon(ish), and 1 figure =1 man I can not praise Troops Weapons and Tactics too highly. However one word of caution: it is intended that players (or umpire if available) agree target numbers/shot quality, though a guide is included.

Pivado,

I play a bunch of different sets, so I will advise as others and say check out your local area. Find some games and see what others are playing. Almost every miniature gamer I know will gladly teach you the game, loan you troops to play the day of a battle and give it his best to sell you on the system they are playing that day.

Take your time, look at a bunch of different types of games. Find one that fits your budget, time allowance (how much time you have available to make, paint and then play on any given day) and style. Most importantly find one that is fun to play and has other players that make you comfortable and the experience a joy.

good luck

chris

What makes Rapid Fire realistic but FOW not?

Rules of Engagement, and use dirt-cheap 20mm plastic figures and vehicles – you can easily create two forces for a small sum, and the rules are very easy to understand.

Rapid Fire gets my vote.

I found both Disposable Heroes and Rules of Engagement to enjoyable without being overcomplicated. I have heard good things about Troops, Weapons, and Tactics too.

Not sure if you are looking for free stuff to review before making a decision – if so – there is also Operation World War 2:

link

Good luck and let us know what direction you decided to go in.

Art

Rapid Fire (especially the free "for rookies" one) is very simple (and it is what I use for introducing kids to WW2 gaming), but if you're willing to go non-maintstream, Crossfire is fantastic--real world tactics work, though game play feels weird to people that are used to I-go-You-go systems.

Rob

By the way, you can go to Junior General Paper Soldiers and print out any forces that you need to try out a rules set w/o buying/painting any miniatures. I particularly like the "top-down" style units.

A second for Jr.Gens… but also for rules
link

As Matt the site owner states: "This web site is intended to promote the use of historical simulations as a tool for teaching history by providing free resources that anyone can use. The simulations make use of historical miniatures (paper or plastic toy soldiers), maps and counters, and matrix arguments. The simulations are designed for students in grades 6 – 8. Each scenario is complete with everything needed to run the simulation except dice and rulers."

Crossfire

Conflict of heroes?…

To be blunt, when introducing new players to a period I find that its not generally picking the ruleset that is really the issue but how people go about teaching a new player that determines how they take to the game.

While there may be some rulesets that don't work as a first game, most will – either by graded introduction to games or by shadowing a player in full games. I cannot see any of the rulesets mentioned above from FoW, BKC and Rapid Fire through to Crossfire as being inherently unsuitable for training a new player on (I didn't spot IABSM getting mentioned so I'll add that too).

Fundamentally if you cannot teach someone a game either in small battles or by limiting the variety of units to get them up to speed then surely experience players will struggle anyway and it is unlikely that the ruleset will be played much anyway.

I would therefore suggest that the best ruleset to start someone on is likely to one that will get played by the player a reasonable amount in the near future, and that other players in the group are likely to be familiar with. Then pick the best teacher in the group to run the games and work out how best to train someone in a game.

Hundreds?

OK, I'm exaggerating a bit.

"Hundreds?"

I'd have said thousands, if you include homegrown & modded.

There are 195 entries in the WW2 rules section on freewargamesrules.co.uk alone.

Anyway, if starting from scratch with WW2 I would:

i) do some thinking what period/theatre/campaign/level of action interests me. Usually there will be something which has sparked my interest in a new period, and I want to make sure I can game it.

ii) look for a local gaming group(s) and see if what they do enthuses me or if they are interested in (i)

iii) have a very serious think about figure scales and level of unit representation. If (i) turned out to be Corps level 1941 desert warfare then I'd probably be looking at 1 base = 1 battalion stuff, if it is Easy Company in Normandy, then maybe 1 figure = 1 man or some sort of tactical 1 base = 1 team or section.

iv) decide what rules will work for the level of representation needed in (iii). Most people seem to like to start off WW2 with tactical (platoon/company) type games or possibly grand tactical (battalion/brigade).

For both I'd go with something simple and popular. Flames of War for company level games and Rapid Fire II for battalion/brigade). I often seem to end up writing my own rules what I'm interested in.

v) Work out how much stuff I will need and compare it with my budget in terms of both money and storage space. historical OBs are easy enough to find out about, and having decided (i) and (iii) and and special requirements for (iv) I know what I need to get. This will inform what scale of stuff I need to buy and how much.

vi) Go shopping and get painting, accept I will have to buy both sides.

So, have a think about (i) and (iii) and let us know.

"There are 195 entries in the WW2 rules section on freewargamesrules.co.uk alone."

117, not counting non-WWII, air, naval, rocket warfare, and strictly amphibious landing rules. About 100 if you don't count files that are supplements for another file, translations of other files, etc. And how many of *those* have ever been played more than once by anyone besides the author?

By your count, the unofficial Flames of War Pacific "supplement" list consisting of one Stratofortress would rate as a set of WWII rules.

OK, here's one: I'm the Allies, you're the Axis. We each roll a D6, re-rolling ties. High roll wins WWII! Look: another set of WWII rules!

C'mon, are we seriously recommending home-grown, back of a postcard, and rules that have never seen the light of day?

Allen

"By your count, the unofficial Flames of War Pacific "supplement" list consisting of one Stratofortress would rate as a set of WWII rules."

If the boot fits…

"OK, here's one: I'm the Allies, you're the Axis. We each roll a D6, re-rolling ties. High roll wins WWII! "

Allen, the brevity of your ruleset will make it an astounding success… FOW, watch out!

"Look: another set of WWII rules!"

Truly your sarcasm knows no bounds…

"C'mon, are we seriously recommending home-grown, back of a postcard, and rules that have never seen the light of day?"

Yes. Yes we are. One man's treasure …

Did you not enjoy the G63 ruleset? It will redefine ACW gaming as we know it.
ACWFOW would not stand a chance with a fine quality set of rules like that. I'd also point out that the G63 rules are perfect for solo gaming.

Pass the popcorn boys….

"117"

I was very careful to say entries and not rules, and the OP hasn't excluded air or naval, we are just assuming he wants to do land….

"C'mon, are we seriously recommending home-grown, back of a postcard, and rules that have never seen the light of day?"

I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to start out with, but some of the most imaginative and interesting rules I've come across have been home grown ones. Maybe that is just me. Aren't all rules ultimately homegrown though? I'm sure Charles Grant just made his up as he went along.

Well, I still like Command Decision. So there. A small game does not require a lot of figures and can be played quickly.

A 2nd vote for Memoir 44
link

A great, simple yet fun and challenging game. It uses miniature figs on a modular board. You could (and many do) convert it to a tabletop mini game by using a hex gridded surface with applicable terrain pieces.

aecurtis wrote:

[…] C'mon, are we seriously recommending home-grown, back of a postcard, and rules that have never seen the light of day?

No, but I wouldn't necessarily discount rules out of print but not free or smaller publications if they're played locally. I was very much in Pivado's situation 6 years ago (yikes) when my sons got interested in historical games. While I'm happy I got into FoW, I do wish I'd known more about what else is available out there.

Shifting the topic slightly to "games with a pulse that might be played locally", just going from my own personal collection of rules collected in the years since starting, I'd say there must be well over 100 "solid" sets of rules for WWII. I just did a quick count, and I'm on 20 separate mailing lists/Yahoo groups for WWII land games that have active players. I can think of a half-dozen others that are supported by forums. Add in some old-schooley Grant and Featherstone rules and there's another half dozen easily. Not all are at the same level of command, of course, but they're all WWII. And I'm just a beginner!

Not to contradict Ed, but I would definitely see who is playing what locally before committing to anything. In addition to the rules, that may help you pin down what figure scales and basing to use if you'll be playing with that group regularly. I think the bigger commitments are to figure scale and basing. Doing it all over again, I might have gone with 20mm figures since they're so cheap, or perhaps 6mm. But since everybody I'm likely to game against has 15mm, I'm using that scale for just everything I play so I only need one set of scenery. I'm using individually based 15mm figures for skirmish, and FoW basing for larger games. Fortunately, FoW basing is pretty common, so that route is low-risk. As John and other have mentioned -- and well worth repeating -- you are not tied to using any "official" Battlefront FoW miniatures, nor are you restricted to using only 15mm scale miniatures to play FoW, or most any other WWII set of rules.

If you're not playing with an existing group, well then you have all kinds of options. I'd still recommend FoW, but also remember it's not a church. You can pick up any number of rule sets and happily jump between them.

Definitely check out the skirmish games from Two Hour Wargames. They're unlike anything else I've tried, and definitely a lot of fun. That level of game is also dirt-cheap to get into, and might provide a quick start if you've got buddies who are impatient to get started gaming.

There's also no reason you can't start out with a set of rules that requires fewer models, then simply buy another set of rules as you acquire more for your collection. Much to my surprise, I've become a small-time rules collector. I'd be happy to play any of them, but FoW is definitely the game that gets played the most locally. But I've also found easily a half-dozen games played at similar organizational levels that can be played with the exact same figures and basing.

- Bob

Pivado, here are a few links:

A free set of simple rules for 6mm micro armor:
PDF link

More detailed rules, along with all kinds of unit lists, all free:
panzer-war.com

And you can use the free print out figures mentioned from jr. general. There's also printed micro armor, priced pretty reasonable, at:
link

After reading a lot over the past 4 or 5 weeks regarding rules, I'm going with Flames Of War, as they seem to be the best balance between fun/playability and detail/accuracy. However, I'm going to do it in 6mm. 15mm just looks too crowded and doesn't allow for maneuvering room on the table. The rule books are expensive, so give thought to time period/theater if you go that route. However, in 6mm, you can buy about a battalion for the price of a FOW 5 tank platoon. And no, FOW is not like the old Warhammer. There isn't a constant stream of new rules versions. There has been a 2nd version released, and books on the different theaters/time periods add additional rules, but once you have the books you need/want, that's it.

Hope this helps a bit.

JimF51 wrote:

[…] There has been a 2nd version released, and books on the different theaters/time periods add additional rules, but once you have the books you need/want, that's it.

There are also a multitude of PDFs for various units and summaries of special rules for the majority of nationalities freely available for FoW. There's enough that you can field a couple of trial lists before committing to buying many (or any) supplements.

- Bob