| Widowson | 23 Dec 2009 1:41 p.m. PST |
I'd like to do this in 1/72, but size of battlefield becomes a real issue at 1" = 20 yards, which makes for a battlefield that is 22 feet wide, east to west. This includes room to manouver to the east of the Bois de Boissu. So I'm thinking it should be 15mm, with a ground scale of about twice that. However, I like a figure scale close to 1-30, so that larger and smaller battalions can be represented. Perhaps I'm asking too much. Has anyone played this battle in miniature? What scale and rules did you use? |
| Timmo uk | 23 Dec 2009 1:43 p.m. PST |
Not played it but I'm not far off having the French army required at 1:30 in 15mm. Rules Le Feu Sacre. Easy to adapt to 1:30. The Perrys have a QB demo using their own Black Powder rules for instance but I think the units are more like 1:20 although I'm sure you could scale them down a bit. |
| The Tin Dictator | 23 Dec 2009 1:47 p.m. PST |
I'd use any one of the 1:60 or 1:100 rule sets and go with a condensed ground scale of about 1"=100'. |
| Rich Bliss | 23 Dec 2009 2:04 p.m. PST |
I've played this with 54mm. With a 500:1 figure ratio. It was done on a 6'x9' table. You could do a 50:1 ratio by going to 6mm and keeping the same base size. The rules used were Volley and Bayonet and the scenario is included in the new edition. |
| Widowson | 23 Dec 2009 2:10 p.m. PST |
Le Feu Sacre uses the old Empire-based set-up. 12-figure battalions and 1"=50 yards. That makes for a Quatre Bras tabletop of about 9 feet wide, east to west. That sounds manageable, but perhaps a bit too grand tactical. After all, Quatre Bras is basically a corps-size engagement. How tough would it be to revise the figure and ground scale of Le Feu Sacre for 18-figure battalions? I guess that would make the ground scale approximately 1" = 40 yards? |
Ligniere  | 23 Dec 2009 2:26 p.m. PST |
I've run Quatre Bras more times than I like to remember, in my opinion, it's simply an awesome scenario. I've run it using all different nationalities too – substituting the troops by nationality and quality. So Kellerman's cuirassier become Austrian Kurassier, and the Dutch/Belgians become Bavarians allied to French, who represent the British. Great stuff. But it is a large battlefield, and very difficult to represent all areas in one table area. I think it's definitely manageable using a ground scale of 1" = 50 paces [or yards], and using 15 mm or 6 mm figures – but if you plan to use 28 mm figures, you may have to be selective in the terrain area you represent. I've sometimes limited in just to immediate area along the main highway, and run the table lengthwise. Another method I've used, for this and other battles, is to build the terrain at a smaller ground scale, say 1"= 100 paces [or yards], then using only 50% of the number of the units, then use a movement and range scale that matches 1" = 50 paces, with 15 mm or 6 mm figures. This way the density of the troops on the table are correct, and the game mechanics are unaltered. All of the terrain features are represented, so it looks right. Obviously, there is a compromise in the ground scale, but my experience has always been positive rather than negative when doing this. I've done the same by building a terrain at 1" = 50 paces, then using 28 mm figures whose movement and ranges are measured at 1" = 25 paces [or yards]. The important thing is to halve the number of units that were actually at the battle. npm |
| lkmjbc3 | 23 Dec 2009 2:36 p.m. PST |
I'm with Rich… V&B…. fits on a 4x4 table…
Great game. I've run it many times….. For a bigger game … run QB and Ligny at the same time! Joe Collins |
| Timmo uk | 23 Dec 2009 3:01 p.m. PST |
Widowson 18 Figure French battalions is exactly what I've done. They look nice and the basing regime works out really well IMHO. 3 figures to a company. I worked through all the maths of frontages and got myself lost in the process I seem to think I ended up with an inch to 30 – 40 yards but I gave up worrying about the exact outcome to be honest. However, I asked Daz the author of LFS and he felt its best to leave move distances etc just as they are in the rules. I've played it with card units (I nearly have the French army but only a couple of British units) and LFS at 1:30 seems to work very well. |
| Grizwald | 23 Dec 2009 3:34 p.m. PST |
"12-figure battalions and 1"=50 yards. That makes for a Quatre Bras tabletop of about 9 feet wide, east to west.
[snip]
How tough would it be to revise the figure and ground scale of Le Feu Sacre for 18-figure battalions? I guess that would make the ground scale approximately 1" = 40 yards?" Er … If you increase the size of a battalion from 12 to 18 figures then you increase the frontage of a battalion by 50%. The ground scale becomes 1" = 33 yards and the table width increasesfrom 9 feet to 13.5 feet! Is that what you really meant? Besides, QB really needs a frontage of ~2 miles. At 1"=50 yards that would require a table width of 17.6 feet!! I have played QB at a ground scale of 1cm = 75 yards. It then fits nicely on a 3ft by 2ft board. |
| Duc de Limbourg | 23 Dec 2009 3:50 p.m. PST |
|
| Ghecko | 23 Dec 2009 9:58 p.m. PST |
We have played it several times in 6mm on a 6x4 using the MiniNap rules – see runtus.org Its a great little historical scenario to play |
| Timmo uk | 24 Dec 2009 2:43 a.m. PST |
Mike Yes – your right ground scale is about 1" = 33 yards. I mentioned 1" to 30 or 40 yards as I was being lazy and I think there a bit of latitude with these things in a game. Sorry it may be my weakness with maths but I don't follow your other figures: Besides, QB really needs a frontage of ~2 miles. At 1"=50 yards that would require a table width of 17.6 feet!! How come? 1 real mile = 1760 yards. 1760 / 50
(as 1" equals 50 yards.) therefore 35.2 table top inches = 1 mile 70.4 inches = 2 miles At 1" = 50 yards 2 miles is just under 6' on the table.. or have I gone wrong? at 1" = 33 yards I mile should be 53.3 table top inches or 8' 8" for two miles. |
| TheRugdoctor2003 | 24 Dec 2009 3:49 a.m. PST |
There'a a Quatre Bras scenario for LFS in the TooFatLardies 2004 Xmas special. Cheers,
Daz |
| Stefanpanzer | 24 Dec 2009 4:16 a.m. PST |
Napoleons Legacy website here
link
Ground scale works best at 10mm = 7meters but this is only a guide. |
| Grizwald | 24 Dec 2009 4:19 a.m. PST |
"Sorry it may be my weakness with maths but I don't follow your other figures:
{snip]
35.2 table top inches = 1 mile
70.4 inches = 2 miles!" Oops! Yes, you are correct. My only defence is that it was late at night when I wrote that – sorry!! |
| Timmo uk | 24 Dec 2009 4:52 a.m. PST |
Mike, no need to apologise – Happy Christmas!
"There'a a Quatre Bras scenario for LFS in the TooFatLardies 2004 Xmas special.
Cheers,
Daz" Crikey how did I miss that, will order later if I've not already got it in my archive. |
| John de Terre Neuve | 24 Dec 2009 9:45 a.m. PST |
I was curious, I am ok with a the 2 miles wide terrain setup, but what is the depth requirement. I have a 12x5ft table and am set up with 1" = 25 yds ratio. So that works out to 2 miles wide and a little less than 1 mile deep, would this work? Thanks, John |
paints the Dogman from the Flintloque starter set.
