| hwarang | 22 Dec 2009 12:10 p.m. PST |
is that silly or possible:
could one batt. have more than one flag? i ask because i have four flags per batt. should i cut three of them off or can they all be used (which would look better)…? armies in question are prussian and french, 1812ish. |
aecurtis  | 22 Dec 2009 12:36 p.m. PST |
Prussia--see pp. 18, 20: link France--it depends on the timeframe; see the (sometimes garbled) comments on the three patterns shown here: link But for the 1812 issue, as you can see, there should be one per *regiment*, if the unit in question had received the new issue, or had turned in their extra battalion standards as previously instructed. Allen |
| hwarang | 22 Dec 2009 12:42 p.m. PST |
ok.. thank you. i should then probably file off all but one flag per battalion. that still would not be right, but more or less ok. i cannot see p. 18, 20 on the site, i guess that is normal and you hint that i should buy the book? |
| aecurtis | 22 Dec 2009 1:36 p.m. PST |
You should be able to click ahead to pages 18 and 20. But before 1807, each Prussian battalion had two fahnen. In the first battalion of each regiment, there was one Liebfahn and one Regimentersfahn. In the second battalion, both were Regimentersfahnen. After 1807 and the reorganization of the army, musketeer battalions had two flags each, as above; fusilier battalions had none, and so initially did grenadier battalions. But by 1812 grenadier battalions had received theirs. After 1812, reserve infantry regiments are a bit of a a mess, as they tended to carry over Regimentersfahnen from the regular regiments from which they were formed, but would not have had enough for two per battalion: link And landwehr regiments had no official flags, but frequently carried unofficial patterns. Allen |
| hwarang | 22 Dec 2009 1:50 p.m. PST |
very helpful. maybe i should just keep two flags per battalion then. thank you.. |
| raducci | 22 Dec 2009 1:55 p.m. PST |
How many figures in your battalions?
8-12 figure battalions look silly, IMO, with 2 standards. |
| hwarang | 22 Dec 2009 1:56 p.m. PST |
they are 2mm blocks. thus a batt. is 4 blocks of about 30 men a piece. each block has a flag.
to file or not to file… ^^ |
 ColCampbell  | 22 Dec 2009 2:27 p.m. PST |
For Prussians, see: link For French, see: link Jim |
| WarDepotDavid | 22 Dec 2009 2:56 p.m. PST |
hwarang. I am in the same predicament as you. I am building 2mm Naps armies with 4 large blocks for Prussian battalions and 6 medium blocks for French battalions. All blocks come with flags cast in them so I cut them all off all blocks except 1 per battalion. Then I add printed flags to the cast flag and a 2nd flag to the same block if applicable. On a side, make sure you keep us all posted on your 2mm project and plenty of pics. Enquiring minds need to know! David
wardepot.blogspot.com
6to20painting.blogspot.com |
| hwarang | 22 Dec 2009 2:58 p.m. PST |
great.. then i will do it like you! even though i will kep french batt. down to 4 blocks too (system of choice for that is Huzzah!) |
 Dal Gavan | 22 Dec 2009 8:06 p.m. PST |
G'day, Allen. After 1812, reserve infantry regiments are a bit of a a mess, as they tended to carry over Regimentersfahnen from the regular regiments from which they were formed, but would not have had enough for two per battalion: link And landwehr regiments had no official flags, but frequently carried unofficial patterns. Allen In October 1813 an AKO ordered that all the unofficial flags carried by the Prussian army were to be removed or they would be confiscated, mate. There had been a similar order prior to this, in August, but the AKO was enforced and all the "ersatz" flags had been removed from I, II and III corps by the middle of November, I believe. They may have been carried a little longer in the more dispersed IV Corps units. Some of the reserve battalions may have carried Regimentsfahnen from their stammregiment, but I haven't been able to pin down information of any particular battalion doing that. These were returned under the August 1813 order (the King had not presented the flags to those battalions) and it's unlikely any were still carried when the battalions were formed into the Reserve Infantry Regiments. The fusilier battalions of the regiments, and the Jaeger and Schuetzen battalions, also started to get flags from 1814, starting with the Guards (the fusiliers of the Grenadier Regiments kept theirs as well), though the line didn't start to get theirs until after Waterloo. Having said that, it's up to the individual whether they want to give those units flags. My August 1813 landwehr do carry flags but my RIR don't. That may change (I do like me flags)- but do I use the Stammregiment flag or those issued from September 1815? Choices, choices. Dal. |
| Cory Coleman | 07 Feb 2010 9:04 a.m. PST |
Would the Prussian battalions have carried both flags together side by side in one colour party? |
| Cory Coleman | 09 Feb 2010 7:36 p.m. PST |
ahh found the answer to my own question, apparently only the 1st flag was carried: "During the campaigns of 1813-15, only the Avancierfahne of each battalion was carried in the field."
(Nash – "The Prussian Army 1808-15" p 92) |
| Supercilius Maximus | 10 Feb 2010 9:24 a.m. PST |
Why did they take all the flags away from the Landwehr? |
| Musketier | 10 Feb 2010 9:36 a.m. PST |
Because they were made and presented by the people, not by the King? - This whole "nation in arms" thing smacked of dangerous democratic leanings to the conservative faction in Prussia. In fact a universal militia had I believe been proposed in the early 1800s alrerady, but been rejected on those grounds. Even in the post 1806 reform atmosphere, the creation of the Landwehr was delayed as long as possible. In 1813 there was no real alternative, but after 1815 it was quickly scaled back and turned into a reserve firmly under regular army control… So, quite apart from the fact that Landwehr flags did not conform to any official patterns, to some in the War Ministry there may have been deeper reasons for not letting these troops carry any symbols of their own. |
