"Whats the estimation on the non-Russian WARPAC forces?" Topic

What is the general consensus on the training, skill and morale of some of the non-Russian warsaw pact members?
I am mainly thinking of Poland and East Germany here.
The wiki article on East Germany talks about them being rated highly amongst the soviet bloc forces, but I am not sure how the books it references are considered, in terms of general reliability.

I imagine both Poles and East Germans would have fought pretty bitterly against a NATO incursion, but what's the general consensus, especially on the offensive?

I doubt the Poles would have fought very hard for the Russians and I believe the Russians didn't theink they would either.

Of course, the Poles might have fought quite hard against the Germans.

Yeah, on an offensive, the Poles might not have had their hearts in it that much, though I suspect if Leopards started rolling over their border, they'd have reacted quite differently

Used to be a joke, the Premier of the USSR is travelling back to the USSR on a Russian train, he asks an aid where they are,the aid puts his arm out of the window and says The DDR, thanks he says, a little later he asks again, again the aid puts his arm out of the window, Poland he says. Finally he asks and this time time when the aid brings his arm back in he says Russia. How did you know our location just by putting your arm out of the train asks the premier, simple says the aid, in the DDR they hit my hand, in Poland they spat on it and in Russia they stole my watch!

A joke we used in the good old days togehter with the classic slide staing that quantity has a quality all of it's own!

Tally Ho!

I can't say that I could ever see the Poles fighting off NATO. Poland and France had been allies for centuries (when permitted) and the Poles seem to harbour no resentments against the West in general. As for preventing anyone on their way to fight the Russians? Not really a Polish thing to do.

An expansionist Germany would be different, but that is not consistent with Warpac still existing.

Post 1956 I don't see the Czechs or Hungarians being too keen to die to save the Russians either. Especially since the Hungarians had already started shooting at them once!

Poland had the largest of the WARPAC armies and the DDR had the smallest, IIRC. Some thought that the Germans were the least trusted of the WARPAC forces by the Soviets.

Like most "allies" they would have fought well enough whilst they appeared to be on the winning side. They would likely have been less effective if Warpac started to look like the losers.

It's a really difficult question to answer. The Bulgarian regime were well known as the most dedicated fans of the USSR (the Bulgarian KGB did things in foreign countries that even the Soviets were embarrassed about!), but did that necessarily include the Bulgarian people? Bulgaria had eight Motor Rifle Divisions and no Tank Divisions, though it did have five independent Tank Brigades.

The Hungarians were undoubtedly the least enthusiastic and their army was tiny by Warpac standards. The army was hamstrung by mass avoidance of the draft and the government had no real enthusiasm for dealing with the problem. Hungary had one Tank Division and five Motor Rifle Divisions – all were weak.

The Romanians had pulled back from Warpac following the Prague Spring of 1968. Ceaucescu's army did not participate in any Warpac exercises after that date and did not allow Warpac forces to cross Romania. His arms industry also became very independent – even manufacturing French aircraft under licence and using West German engines and other technology in redesigned T-55s (the TR-85). The Romanians had two Tank Divisions and eight Motor Rifle Divisions.

The Poles were undoubtedly the most military efficient of the Warpac Allies – the army's tactics and doctrine were often based on their Western Allied WW2 experience, rather than the Soviet model and they were well-trained by Warpac standards. They also had an independent mission in the Great Drive West – to sieze Denmark with little Soviet support beyond naval and air assets. Their 'divisions' were often little more than strong brigades, however (this was especially true after the 1970s). Despite the pro-Soviet leanings of Jarezelski's regime, the Polish people would undoubtedly have been less than enthusiastic about going to war for the Soviets. The Poles had five Tank Divisions, eight Motor Rifle Divisions, one Airborne Division and one Marine Division (these last two were actually only brigade-strength by the 1980s)

Czechoslovakia was rather 'middling' – it had a relatively well-equipped army by Warpac standards, but its motivation was extremely questionable. It had five Tank Divisions and four Motor Rifle Divisions.

East Germany was widely regarded by both East and West, to be among the most militarily reliable of the Warpac nations. Indoctrination of the young population was carried out in East Germany to a degree unseen outside North Korea and Pol Pot's Cambodia – a formerly East German acquaintance of mine tells me how she was taught in school that the two Germanies had always been separated and how East Germany fought on the side of the Allies during WW2… The East German army was relatively small – only two Tank Divisions and four Motor Rifle Divisions – but it was the best-equipped of the Warpac allies.

I spent some time talking with some former Soviet senior officers in the early 90s. They thoguht the Poles were better trained than their own troops, but were seriously afraid they would change sides rather abruptly if given the opportunity. The thought of the East Germans as adequately trained cannon fodder, but poorly motivated unless closely followed by Soviet troops. Their attitudes toward the smaller WARPAC armies were rather arrogant and racist.

Makes you wonder if the Poles were being sent to invade Denmark to keep them from defecting to the Americans, French or Brits on the Central Front. Should have thought they'd be happy enough to fight the West Germans however!

Would the East Germans be trusted to go up against the West Germans?

I think someone commented that the perfect way to stop the Soviet invasion would be to stuff the German border full of vodka warehouses ;-)

Wouldn't even need vodka warehouses. As soon as they "liberated" a local grocery store or the German equivalent of a Mall, the war would've been over right there and then…

Damon.

How about the post-vodka invasion of Greece and Turkey in search of half-a-million kebabs?