"Alternative to the Latest Edition of Warhammer?" Topic

What do people suggest? I'm considering going back to 3rd edition or possibly trying to do some army lists up for War of the Ring…
Mick

I went back to Fantasy Warriors myself, otherwise I'd go back to 3rd ed.

another vote for 3rd ed…..all downhill from there….

Polemos Mythic Armies

No Limits is a good set, that is similar in style to Warhammer, but different. The rules are very good and free.

wargamesunlimited.net

Try Armies of Arcana.

I think Delthos meant "No Quarter" the Fantasy version of No Limits.

Jeff

My friend and I play 3rd Edition with some house rules. Seems to work fine.

Ooops, that is definitely what I meant! No Limits is Chris's Sci-Fi rule set. Thanks for the save JRacel.

Supposedly, the eighth edition is coming out in the near future.

Now to stop my eyes from rolling…

Hey, as long as eighth edition comes with a boxed set as cool as Skull Pass, bring it on.

3rd ed. 3rd ed. 3rd ed. and buy loads of 3rd ed minis too!

Just bought Song of Heroes and Blades which looks like a very nice and quick Fantasy Skirmish game…

Current edition isn't actually too bad IF you play Orcs & Goblins and Dwarves only. They're the closest thing to balanced since their books came out around the same time as the game book.

Isnt Ganesha Games working on a massed battle set? If they could do for mass battles what they did for skirmishes, I'm there…..

After all that reminiscing about Orcs I'm going to dust off my 2nd Ed. Warhammer Fantasy Battles box again. All I need now are a few dozen Orcs in various shades of anything but green…

I seem to remember that 2nd Ed had a formula for points calculation and only a very sketchy army list book so I will be creating my own lists exactly how I like them. It's either that or going with the rules from the Fantasy Wargaming book at the moment.

The problem with the GW model, in my opinion, is that the staged release of army lists always seems to lead to an arms race, where each new book has a super powerful new thing which is better than the super powerful thing for the last book.

If battles are able to pivot more around the grunts instead of the funnies then the game is generally more enjoyable imho.

War of the ring is fun btw, had a good game in the local store recently. Only problem is it is just as much of a dice fest as WFB, just simpler. I have yet to get on to my pre-slotta stuff that i ebayd in last year, so as yet have not decided what fantasy rules to use, though SOBAH and Armies of Arcania both sound very interesting.

link

Warrior Heroes, by Two Hour wargames, is another option.

Two Owl Bob- 3rd edition has the points formula as well mate, that's one of the reasons I was thinking of going back to it (plus I have the armies book, seige and one of the chaos books…).
I would be interested in the Ganesha Games rules if they are working on some, anyone know for definate?
Mick

Another vote for Armies of Arcana.

I think the only real plus that warhammer offers is that it's the market leading fantasy game by a long way. So if you buy an army you can walk into a store in any main ( UK ) town and get a game.

The game was never a very good design in any of it's versions. GW don't do good games designs.

If you're playing with a stable group (only) then I think the best approach is to convert a game with good core mechanics that you like.

My choice is to take a good historics system and design special abilities and lists. I like Impetus.
link

Much as Stewbags was saying.
I reckon that fantasy works better the closer it matches up with reality. As soon as the power of things gets too whiz bang then you have problems.
Superman always wins.

Also if armies act like armies then there is less suspension of disbelief. I know roughly how battles work.

So take regular battle, season with fantasy flava.
Job done.

I confirm that "Song of Armies and Hordes", the army-level version of Song of Blades and Heroes, is in playtest and will come out in 2010, but I can't be more specific than that.

It will be a stand-alone game, include simple siege rules, a point system to build your own army from scratch and also a few army lists for the most popular fantasy races and a few fantasy Ancients. More lists will be published later as free PDF add-ons.

Basing is multiple models (you decide how many) on squares (you decide how big, depending on scale of minis you use and table size – the default suggestion will be 40x40mm bases for 15-18mm models). Each square is a unit and a formation comprises 2 to X units, where X is one third of your army's total stands. No bookkeeping -- units can recoil/be temporarily disrupted, or be removed.

The average game is played in less than two hours using 12 to 25 stands per players.

Heroes, mages etc are singly based but can be attached to a unit or move indipendently. They can engage in magical duels, heroic combat, assassination missions etc.

More about this later in 2010!
Andrea

ganeshagames.blogspot.com

+1 to Armies of Arcana.

I have enjoyed SoBaH, so will wait to see it's massed battles engine.

Best wishes.

The main problem with Warhammer is that the designers figure out stats and point costs by what "feels right." They openly admit this. Then add in that different designers are working on different armies. As well, their playtesters represent an infinitesimal fraction of the total players of the game.

So you end up with different people designing different armies at different times, playtesting that doesn't even come close to covering the possible situations, combinations and possible armies that will occur on the table top during the life of the army book, and all of this being done so that it fits the subjective sense of "feels right" that each of those different designers might have.

It's really a miracle it works at all.

I never had huge problems with the basic Warhammer rules although there were/are a few things I didn't like. It's the army lists and special rules for almost every unit that really turned me off combined with the continual rewrites that never really improve anything.

For me it's Armies of Arcana all the way now. Does almost everything I want and I'm working on adapting the few things it doesn't.

"I never had huge problems with the basic Warhammer rules although there were/are a few things I didn't like. It's the army lists and special rules for almost every unit that really turned me off combined with the continual rewrites that never really improve anything."

Seconded. I understand why GW keeps the cycle going, but they really need to provide a bit more oversight at the line editor level.

Cheers everyone! Armies of Arcana now on xmas list and looking forward to SoBaH mass battle :-)
Mick

The unofficial fantasy supplement for Impetus and Basic Impetus is now online: link

It has the author's blessing and the initial release has six lists:
- Holy Human Empire
- Elf Brotherhood
- Dwarf Oligarchy
- Green Orc Horde
- Restless Souls
- The Corrupted

As with Historical Impetus, it uses large elements, so if you're looking for individual model removal, it's not for you.

J

I'll second War of the Ring.

Heroes make their unit better, and the game is built around the idea of putting 250+ figures on each side of the table, while finishing the game in 2-3 hours.