"Should one be able to play using just a Quick Play Sheet?" Topic

In another thread, about a recently published set of Napoleonic rules, which unfortunately became rather unpleasant, the original poster made the not unreasonable point, IMHO, that a QPS should contain all the factors needed to actually play the game.

I must emphasise at once that I am NOT condoning the original poster's alleged attempt to avoid purchasing the rules by downloading the QPS from the author's website, NOR do I wish to engage in debate about the merits of a set of rules I do not possess and have not seen.

I would, perhaps, qualify the original poster's comment to the effect that, after reading the rulebook carefully and playing a few test games, one ought to be able to play the game subsequently using only the QPS, without having to return to the full rulebook during play except in exceptional circumstances to resolve atypical tabletop situations that only occur very rarely.

Personally, I think this facility is the real test of a wargame rule desginer/writer's skill – any fool can write a complex, lengthy rule book full of sub-paragraphs, special cases and exceptions, and, alas! many have done so – and I would pay a larger sum of money for, say, a sixty page rulebook that I can read two or three times and thereafter play using only a double-sided QPS, than for a hundred or more page book to which I still have to constantly refer many games later.

As I get older, I want game rules that are simple to learn, and enjoyable to play. And nothing kills the enjoyment like having to refer frequently to a legalistic rulebook!

What do you think?

Of course a QRS should contain all the factors (the WRG ilk are a model of how not to do it BTW). Doesn't mean that you should be able to play the game without any reference to the rules though

To be able to play w/o refering to the rulebook at some point would require a very simplistic set of rules indeed. If that was my criteria, I would have had to leave the hobby. I do play simple rules like "Battle Cry", "Command & Colors: Ancients" and "Memoir '44" more and more these days, but even with those I have to refer to the rulebook occasionally.

If you don't want to take the time to learn how to drive and get your license, you can always hire a chauffeur.

Sorry but one page rules are generally quite simple and they provide a game that has little or no depth.

Rules that have a lot of depth are not printed on a single page.

Quick, play sheets are merely an outline.

If you find reading the Cliff notes to be just as good as reading the book, then I guess your premise is right.

Personally I like reading the book. I enjoy the depth and breath of a period and a good set of rules will provide some insight into just this.

A guy posted a quick play sheet for Watch Your Six (124 pages) on the Yahoo group that is a single page. Can you play Watch Your Six with nothing more than a single page cheat sheet? Seriously doubt it but I can see where the single page would be a great aid to some.

The length of the rules isn't the issue. It is how the rules are organized that makes all the difference. Put differently, if you have a question, how long does it take to find the information you need to answer that question? That IMO is the proper test to apply to a set of rules.

mjc

It depends what you mean by "all the factors." For example, if you have a movement allowance chart I would expect it to list all unit types, but not necessarily list unusual costs for retrograde, or moving by the flank. Likewise if your combat system is a roll 2D6 and cross reference the number of stands firing, I'd expect all the DRMs on the sheet. But the combat rules and exceptions – LOS, for example, or rules about shooting into melee or through your own skirmishers – no.

If DRMs for Chart N1 are half on the sheet half in the rule book, then the QRS is just very badly designed.

"one ought to be able to play the game subsequently using only the QPS"

Yes, I quite agree, and ideally the QRS should only occupy one or two sides of A4.

I usually try and fit all my rules onto (at most) two sides of A4 and sometimes I manage just one side. I do occasionally cheat and have a separate unit characterstics chart. The rest of it is just verbiage – explanations of mechanisms, designers notes etc.

Virtually the first thing I do with a new set of rules I've purchased is attempt to condense them onto a short playsheet. This is:

a) a good way to make sure you've understood the rules.
b) in my experience, more useful than the 'quick' reference sheets provided in many rules, which are often badly laid out, hard to read and far too long.

Once one has become familiar with the rules, yes.

Yes.

Trying to fit everything is an excellent test of whether your mechanics are crisp and intuitive. I still keep my rulebook handy but the basics of movement, combat and command should fit on one page.

I think a distinction has to be made between quick play rules and rules aids.

Yes, you should be able to play a game entirely using quick play rules; that is the point. However, it will be quick and will obviously lack the depth of the true game.

You should NOT be able to play a game using rules aids/cheat sheets, because those just cover most important, most commonly referred to rules.

"I must emphasise at once that I am NOT condoning the original poster's alleged attempt to avoid purchasing the rules"
The OP repeated that he had already purchased the rules and no one has any evidence to the contrary, I believe most of us live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty. The rules author simply made an assumption and then announced that as fact.

As to your question I think you should be able to play 95%+ of the game from the QRS without refering to the rules except for clarification. I think it is not unreasonable to refer to the rules for the rare or more unusal events, the aim is surely to spend your time playing the game not reading the rules.

If you know the game enough to be able to explain it fully to a new player, and have enough games under your belt so that a lot of the non-standard but feasible events have happened and been played-through then yes a good QRS should be near enough all you need to play. I'm never confident enough to leave my rulebook at home though [at least, not deliberately].

Depends on the QPS – they come with Empire and include frakin' flow charts!

I like a single sheet of paper and the rules for reference. Written in plain language – DBM, DBMM fails miserably in this respect. But I blame the rules lawyers more than WRG for that.

I like to prepare my own quick reference sheets. I treat it as an exercise in learning the rules.

As to commercial quick reference sheets – I prefer they not add any new information, not already present in the rulebook. It saps my confidence; I wonder if I misread the rules.

And of course, please make sure the information in the QRS does not conflict with the rules, and uses consistent terminology.

I'm going to jump in early here and say that this is PRECISELY what I've attempted to do with my own rules.

Check them out here: link

My game is designed to hand a single two-sided, easy to read quick reference sheet to player and have him instantly play the game. Please download one of my QRS and see for yourself.

This game has turned out to be very popular with the people who play it. So yes…I think it is possible to do exactly what Arthur, the original poster, suggests.

However, I have the advantage of being able to design the game around the collection I already own. And I have no intention of publishing these rules. If I did, it would have to be in 'modules' in a 3-ring binder of some sort, and you just pull out the QRS for the period you need. This would be a headache and a hassle and I'm not interested.

Check them out if you want….

Not sure why WRG were given as an example of how not to do it. DBM never had a QRS and earlier editions or the Renaissance and Horse and Musket sets had a quite good playsheet.

Yes, you should !, if you know the rules

The game basics. If too cluttered, the QRS often becomes more of a pain than they are worth. Also, if a QRS contained 95%-100% of the game, then it shouldn't be a freebie offered on the internet. Otherwise, it'd be the equivalent of giving the game away.

Not sure why WRG were given as an example of how not to do it.

That'll be addressed to me then. WRG QRS attempt to cram all the relevant data onto two sides of a 6 3/4" x 9 3/8" piece of card (I've just measured Gush's 1420-1700 QRS). The tiny print and the crammed tables are what I was referring to. They were designed to fit the rules book over any consideration of utility. Reading the damn things with younger eyes was a trial, now it's almost impossible.

WRG are not the only culprits, I was using them as an example, hence the 'ilk' in my post.

Fair enough but I always found them okay and they included everything for most moves and situations.

After saying that I am not sure my eyesight is up to it now either.

Yes, assuming you have read and digested the main rules. You should only have to refer to the main rules for unusual situations.

Like cotedelachevre, I also make QRS for games. It is not meant to eliminate the need for the book, just a fast way to reference the majority of the rules that one would most likely encounter while playing the game without the full explanations or examples.

I think they should have the core stuff one needs to play MOST games – but be easy to read and preferably only one double sided sheet. I have no problem about having to look in the rule book for some factors that occur rarely (lets say attacking pill boxes etc) but would be peeved if I had to look up what the results of a morale roll/test was.

Playing from a playsheet without having played a few with games with the rule book is usually a recipe for disaster.

If a game is intended to be 'fast play' then yes, you should have nothing in the rulebook that requires regular referencing.

If you feel that a rules should be complex and thorough enough that sometimes players will need to fetch tables from the rulebook then simply don't call them 'fast play rules'

IMHO, any game worth its salt should be playable off the QRS once players become comfortable with the rules. Otherwise the game--take the old Star Fleet Battles for example--is really a game of memory and who remembers the proper technicality at the proper time.

And I flat reject the idea that a game that can played off a QRS is either 'simple' or 'fast play'. A well distilled set of rules can produce wonderfully complex games that one can mull over for hours.

No. You need the rules to learn and understand the game. You should be able to deal with most, almost all the game with the QRS but I would expect you will need to refer to the rules at some stage.

I am pretty sure that almost every set of rules I own have either one or two QRS pages and can be played using them.

Is there many sets of rules that can not be played using the QRS? Some are more complex then others and many people will find the rules harder to understand, requiring a lot more rule checking but do people play rules they do not understand?

There's a vast difference between reading and understanding the rules, then playing using just a QRS, and just picking up a QRS and expecting to be able to play the game, without reading the actual rules.

To then complain on a website for wargamers that X rules don't cover doing Y because you haven't actually read the rules, in which there is a large, clearly written section with illustrative examples of how to do Y, is a little daft.

No. It should do for 90% of the time playing but if every odd situation gets chucked onto the QRS then that might as well be the entire rule book!

"There's a vast difference between reading and understanding the rules, then playing using just a QRS, and just picking up a QRS and expecting to be able to play the game, without reading the actual rules."

Have any of you actually looked at my rules? I did precisely what this thread is about. Yes it is possible to do it and I'll put my game up against anybody's.

Have any of you actually looked at my rules?

Which rules are those? Where are they available?

link

Sooner or later, everybody plays every game just from the quick ref cards, or from memory, or some combination of both. But obviously you have to learn somewhere, initially, and that's what the book is for.

A good rulebook should be clearly laid out and logically organized, to help you learn as quickly as possible, so you can graduate to the "just the cards" level of fluency.

I knew guys who'd been playing "Empire" for years and still needed a pocket calculator and all 12 of those quick ref cards, which to my mind at least was an indication that all was not well with the rules, but they loved it. Lots of people loved it. Nobody ever looked in the book.

On the other hand I've been playing Warhammer Ancients for ages and still have to look in the book every game.

I've never been too impressed with the "Rules on Two Pages!" kind of games. I've tried dozens of them over the years and they always end up requiring a million improvisations and on-the-spot rulings to cover all the things that come up in a game and aren't addressed or explained because the rules are so short and basic.

Once again people seem to miss the important factor of scale. If your playing a system that plays at the Divisional level you can easily fit all of the important rules on one single QRS but if your playing at the btln level this is much more difficult unless you sacrifice a great deal of depth.

Now I know there are systems out there that probably do play at a btln level with a single QRS but I am sorry, I will never agre there would be sufficient depth, at least for me.

Shane

I've found that most games are managable without frequent book-diving. A QRS that lists the common bits: important tables, DRMs and such for shooting, reminder of the sequence of events, morale check modifiers, etc, is usually welcome. Like some others, I usually make up one if it is not included in the rules. Sometimes, I make one up which includes an index of the rules I know from experience we will have to look up, like how to handle breakthroughs.

In tank games especially, I like to prepare a cheat card that has all the gunfire vs armor used in this scenario precalculated so we don't have to calculate it during the game: for example: Sherman 76mm vs Pzkw IV needs 10+ to penetrate front armor, 8+ to penetrate vs side armor;etc.

And a thought to hearten you all: "When the players are quick enough, every set of rules are fast play rules"

Jim

Quidveritas:

"If you don't want to take the time to learn how to drive and get your license, you can always hire a chauffeur."

I agree, but once you have passed your driving test you don't want to have to refer to the highway code and the owners manual very often!

I have over 12-15 QRS sheets for my own system in all. Yes this is a huge amount but the system is aimed at the lower end of the scale btln/coy etc.

My reference charts are colour coded by rules section so that they are easily identified by players for what they are for. Also, during our games each player is placed in charge of one section of the rules and is given the appropriote QRS sheets to use. This is on a round robin system where we all get to use each section so that everyone fully understands the overall system.

link

Shane – staple them together and you'd make a rulebook, right?

I'd like try your game someday. Do you run it at conventions?

A QRS should be an aide-memoire…

That`s right a mini rule reference booklet, and why not? I`ve seen Shane`s QRS sheets and they look well laid out and very useable!

After a break from having one, I`m re-designing mine at the moment – it did run to four sides. I`ll try to keep it to that limit… at the risk of turning it into an optician's vision testing card with the smallest font!

To play a single sheet of tables and movement rates, etc. should suffice. Referring to the rule book should only be necessary to resolve rules conflicts….

1066.us

Yes you should be able to do so. The quick reference sheets should contain the most used charts and a sequence of play.

This became almost standard back in the late 1970s. I remember the first set I saw was with Enpire 2. Soon a lot of rules had them. We have used them for several sets of rules back in the 1980s.

To play a single sheet of tables and movement rates, etc. should suffice.

Even if a free downloadable QRS? It should contain everything needed except exceptional circumstances? I find it hard to believe that you would advocate for this since you publish a set of rules.

Yes, once you know the rules, you should be able to play with just a QRS and occasional reference to the rules. I would think there would be something wrong with the rules if you could just pick up a QRS and play the game with no knowledge other than that one sheet (unless it's a one page rules kind of game).

Hi

Well, I admit that Mustangs and Messerschmits, Canvas Falcons and Mig Alley, our trifecta 3d aircombat games requrie BOTH sides of an 8 1/2 by 11 and the RPGs don't work, but YA, in general, everything I have done, and I think Doug has done works off one side of a sheet.

Art of War is essentially played with one side of the sheet and it is there for Download.

Knowing the rules and what it means isn't the same as having a simple sheet for game play, John.

I would not play an airgame that started with my 6 x 50s and required more than just looking at a table and throwing the die.

Or in a figs game my spanish musket volley requiring a few pages of plusses and minuses to resolve as opposed to looking at the table and throwing dice.

Rule that require you memorize stuff, or consult pages of modifyers versus a "Kill Sheet" means the designer is making the players do all the work.

Doug and I both do rules on the format that you lay them face down, and the back of the rules has all the information you need to just play the stupid game.

Rocky

After you have learned the rules, yes. For a tried and true set of rules, you should not even need that -- I played Charge! with my group almost every week for three years in the 70s, and can still remember most of what you would find on a QRS from memory.

If you have played a game half a dozen times and still need to check the rules for routine points playing an ordinary scenario, something is amiss.

Thank you Michael, it was a great deal of hard work to get them all together and put in what I felt was important.

Clay,

I have played them at a couple of club meetings and wanted to show them at the yearly briscon down here but for some reason I keep missing it. I am hoping to try again next year in early May.

Shane

Like I said earlier QRS have been around since the 1970s. Their use created a production issue which had to be addressed.
1. The QRS should be as few pages as possible. The most that I have seen was three which was six pages back and front. Many are one QRS of two pages.

2. Are the QRS to be produced as inserts to the rules or as part of a box set? Some designers did one or the other. Other designers had them as the inside front/back cover in which case the gamer could make his own copies. We have always did both. In case a QRS sheet was lost wwe had them printed in the back of the rules for a player to make more.

3. Since most gamers expected the QRS to be on cardstock, this increased the prodcution costs and packaging costs for the rules. In my case the cost of the card stock and their printing was have the cost of the printed set of rules.

In the packaging process, you had to spend the time sorting the QRS and making sure each set had the proper number.

Isn't assuming that a QRS should contain all the info required to play the game like assuming everything you need to know about chemistry should be in the periodic table?

QRS can be well constructed or can be poorly composed which can be an indication of how well the overall rules are written.

link

That is a link to a crappy demo of me playing my rules that are entirely based on one double-sided QRS. Please check it out!

You've posted a link to your rules in one form or another at least three times on this thread, we get the point bro.

I agree with most folks here that the QRS by definition should not be the only thing necessary to play the rules, but I will say that IMHO:

a. It should be the only thing necessary to learn the rules well enough to play under the guidance of a good GM, and

b. It should really be a (as in one, un, ein, uno) sheet. Not more than two side of a single piece of paper.

JMTSW, YMMV,

Regards, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.com