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"[(4 Riders = Chaos Gods)*3 Functions] on my blog" Topic


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994 hits since 30 Nov 2009
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Comments or corrections?

abdul666lw30 Nov 2009 5:54 a.m. PST

I indulged in a light-hearted, 'daisyesque' comparison between the 4 Gods of Chaos of Warhammer and the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse -no more 'rrespectuous' in intention than the reference giving its title to that Clint Eastwood movie. The similarities between the 2 'tetrads' are in my opinion so obvious that the suggestion that, when devising the Warhammer pantheon, the GW team took most of its inspiration from the Book of Revelations, is a mere triviality.
I propounded it almost a decade ago on the rec.games.warhammer forum -to the incredulous indignation of several fanboys. Recently, prompted by an enjoyable and stimulating series of exchanges with 'OIIIIIIIO', creator of the imaginary Directorat of Herrschaden herrschaden.blogspot.com about the arch-enemies of the Direktorat, the Langdoucians, and their folkloric beliefs, I developped the comparison in some details, and explored possible consequences.
Then I went on to see how well the 2 sets together fit with the 'trifunctional' (praying, warring, producing) framework of Indo-European mythologies ( link ) : surprisingly well, actually.
Finally I seized this opportunity to search for that mysterious (Terry Pratchett's, initially) '5th Rider', who left the (war)band before it went to record; amusingly, 'he' could not be but female

For those intrigued, I posted my delirious rantings as a series of comments (scroll down to the most recents) there: link

What does this have to do with wargaming? Being a retired wargamer, my 18th C. Imagi-Nation is a freaky anomaly: a peaceful, neutral, demilitarized country where the sates funds academic research instead of maintaining troops!

Now, an exemple of Lacepunk (VSF equivalent by the time of the Lace Wars – 'Munchausen as a disciple of Da Vinci'): link

Fantasy / Pulp / Horror in the age of tricorns:
link

Volstagg Vanir01 Dec 2009 11:31 a.m. PST

Abdul666lw~>

I see there is another semiotic/ memetic 'Thinker' on these here Boards:
Hello to You!
(Hmmm-> 1996 started Membership?
… so Why have I not noticed your Posts before this..?)

Anyways: Regarding the 'meat'of Your Post~~~~>

The 'Tripart (Function) Theory' is in need (IMO) of some Formal Updating & Expansion, to include (at least!) the Experiences of Greece and later culture~>
( I won't address the Early split of Hunter/Gatherer from Farmer,
as that is sufficiently covered by the modification of 'Hunter' to 'Warrior'):

But~>
IMHO:
One needs to begin at Least by adding 'Merchants' to the Model in order to begin to reach parity and synthesis with post-agrarian civilization.

Also:
Beginning at least in Greece, and returning in the Renaissance and
Enlightenment eras: One should pro'ly add 'Scholars/Philosphers'
(Scribes+Scientists) as a separate class from the Priesthood.
(My thanks to the writings of Dave Duncan for that insight.)

The cross-Connection/correspondednces with the Four Horseman is a very nice little Touch, (and one I am embarrassed to admit I have never made explicitly before) (but you forgot the Fifth Rider: Christ [Revelation 19 I think..?].

I did get kinda Close however:
the Connection of the four/five Faces of the Adversary
(S'TaN, SaMMaeL, aZaZeL, Ba'aL, BeLia'eL) with the Four/Five Warhammer Powers is something I had mapped out a few years ago-)

The WarHammer Mythos "fit" is, I think: a purely Fortunate Accident
(based on Bryan Ansell reading too much Crowley & Lovecraft and
one too many trips to the Mushroom Patch….[ I might be underestimating him {and It's too bad the current 'caretakers' of Warhammer aren't as well read!!!]})

The Theme also fits in very Nicely with both the European and
(Especially) with Oriental philosophy: the 'Five Elements' theory
(and then into the eight Trigrams of Han, which potentially leads into rabbinical hermeneutics and the sephira yetzira….)

But:
I don't want to Overcomplicate and Strain the 40K/Warhammer models!!
(in This Post, at least: I'll pro'ly post it all on My Gaming Blog,
or mebbe on Blue Fez's 'Meaning of Life' board)…

(Fer BTW 'quick Example': The Eldar Aspects align nicely with the Sephirot…)
But: I digress Muchly!
Expanding on the Skeleton of your Model;
Thusly:

Earth_[Earth]_Agrarian = Production {Physicality}
{ ~~> Corruption= {YoG-SoTHoTH(?)/ Abhoth/ CTHuLHu/ =Gnurgle}
[->Pale Horse-}~[Malak al-Maut aZRaeL]<->(Spirit of Sickness & Death)]

Water_[Wood]_Merchants = Trade {Emotions}
{~~>Decadence)=ShuB-NiGGuRaTH/ Alila/ =Slaanesh}
[->Black Horseman-}~[ eiSHeTH ZeNuNiM/Lillith]<->(Spirit of Babylon)]

Fire_[Fire]_Warriors = [physical->] Aristeia {Will}
{~~>Aggression / NYaRLatTHoTeP =Khorne}
[->Red Horseman-}~[aZaZeL]<->(Spirit of Antichrist)]

Air_[Water]_Rulers = Governance {Mind}
{~~> Fear / aZaTHoTH =Tzeentch }
[ ->White Horseman->{Rev. 6}-}~[{DuMaH?} aGRaT bat MaHLaT]<->(Spirit of Fear/Deception)]

Void_[Metal]_Scribes/Scientists = Archivists { ??? }
~> Deconstruction/ YiBB-TSTLL /Quachil Uttaus/ Ubbo-Sathla =Malaal
[->{ (No Horse ascribed?)}~[SaMMaeL]<-> (Spirit of Death->unMaking)]

I can also make the Strong Argument that the Reformation
(if not Babylon : certainly Not Aegypt!!) makes the Final Split of
'Rulers' from 'Priests'; Significant Enough to add yet another
additional Class/Element/Diety/symbol….)

Thus: (Just for Gits & Shiggles)

Spirit_[Wu Chi]_Priests = hierophant/psychopomp {Energeia/ Mnemnosyne},
~> Joy/Peace =Cergorach & the Star Child
[->{White Horse->{Rev. 19}}~[MeTaTRoN]<->(RuaCH HaKoDeSH; 'Spiritus Sanctus')]

Or somet'ing like Da'aT D'ere…
But: I need to take the time to actually Look it All Up:
I'm sure I messed up a cross-reference/correspondence somewhere in there!
Still: It gets the Point across, I think….not too shabby.

BTW: I Love the LacePunk stuff->
I've been working on something Similair for Publication;
I'll email or PM you w/details, if yer Interested?
(I could Use some amenable Blind/ Beta-Playtesters after the Holidays are over…)

Volstagg Vanir01 Dec 2009 3:23 p.m. PST

Blargh!

One Obvious Omission:
The Emperor/Hierophant may represent the 'Sage/Priest',
but Cergorach/Psychopomp represents the Artist

I need to really look this stuff Up in my Notes;
I have a Fairly Good memory, but that's a lot 'o' Names I don't use
on an everday basis, that there is…

<sigh>

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