"Seminoles" Topic

I was flicking through the Osprey book on the Seminole Wars in the bookshop recently, and am quite taken with the Conquest 28mm figures. Can anyone recommend minis for the American army of the period? I think Old Glory do some, but are they compatible? I've never seen any pics of them and don't like buying sight unseen. Also, which range might make for good civilians?

Thanks.

I have the OG Seminole packs, both the US and the Indians. I think the Conquest -- which I also have -- fit just fine, though they are perhaps a slight bit smaller or slighter -- a bit less well-fed.

I'll mix them without hesitation. In skirmish games one hardly notices, and humans come in different sizes anyway.

Armed civilians could come from the OG Texians (Alamo line) and from the War of 1812 range. Women and chilkdren from all the way from F&I War ranges through post-Civil War wagon train settlers. Frontier dress didn't change that much.

Don't forget you need lots of Militia (infantry, artillery and cavalry) to go with the U.S. Regulars. I use the War of 1812 Militia from Old Glory. The militia hailed from all over including (but not limited to) Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee and even Pennsylvania. Reports show that their dress was just as varied, though the Georgians were slightly more uniform in their uniforms.

For armed settlers on the frontier, any civilian figures with hunting rifles or shotguns will work. Keep in mind that most had floppy or straw hats of some kind.

Also, think about getting some figures to represent the U.S. Navy and Marines that were involved in many coastal skirmishes. From the Old Glory line, the Mexican-American Naval Party or the Civil War Union Navy works well for the U.S. Navy, as the uniform changed little. Marines figures are similar to the U.S. Regular except that their uniforms tended to be mostly white cotton jackets and pants versus the dark Blue and sky-blue blue wool of the infantry. Leathers are white, cartridge box is black, brass plates, and they have the same black leather hat.

Please ask if you have any questions.

David G.
Tampa Bay, FL
dglennjr@yahoo.com

Oxiana,

I have the same project in mind (also inspired by the Osprey book…) but I cannot decide if I should go for the Second or the Third War. For the Third any early ACW figures might do which makes it easy but the Second War has more potential since it was a more wide reaching conflict. Here figures for the Texan Independance or Mexican War could work. I have decided to go for Conquest for the Seminoles and Artizan, Foundry and others for the US troops.

Old Glory's War of 1812 regulars (with the false-fronted shakoes) work for the 1st Seminole War.

Rick

I have a couple of the Conquest packs I am never going to get round to painting if your interested Oxiana. Another project never started!

I've used Perry US Civil War and converted them by cutting off the percussion cap pouches and sculpting a 1833 leather forage cap (suprisingly easy to do actually!)Personally, I would do the 2nd war, little happened in the 1st and, from what I gather, the 3rd consisted mainly of bribery!

Just need the seminole chaps!

As far as the Osprey 'Seminole' book, don't put too much weight behind it. There are a bunch of inaccuracies in it, according to some fellow seminole war enthusiasts.

The first Seminole War is ok to do, but it's a lot of regular troops beating up on Creek and some seminole indians. Plus, the uniforms are quite different fromthe 2nd Seminole War.

The Third Seminole War is a lot of bog hopping and swamp marching trying to find a few of the elusive seminole warriors. However, the uniforms are almost the same as the ones for the 2nd Seminole War.

The Second Seminole War is your best bet with lots of skirmishes, throughout the state. There were even a couple of battles where there were more than 1000 regular troops and several hundred Seminoles, sometimes almost evenly matched. Throw in the occasional raid on a blockhouse or fort and you've got some interesting battles.

I'd recommend against using ACW figures, unless you're going to convert them. I actually converted some 1st Seminole war figures for use as 2nd Seminole War figures by resculpting the hat. Certainly try using some of the Mexican-American war figures, especially the naval party figures.

I'd like to publish a "Seminole Indian Wars" Skirmish Gaming book, but it is a ways off. (Something geared towards the 'Brother Against Brother' skirmish rules.) Here are some 2nd Sem War scenario ideas, without getting into the historical details:

1. Ambush a U.S. or Militia supply column
2. Attack on a U.S. Camp
3. U.S. raid on a suspected Seminole Camp/Village
4. Ambush at a River Crossing. (Seminoles in wait)
5. Seminole attack on a Blockhouse
6. Seminole attack on a Small Fort/Fortified House
7. General meeting engagement in a pine/palm hammock
8. Seminole raid on a frontier homestead
9. U.S. patrol to clear out any seminoles
10. Naval party patrolling a river for Seminoles
11. Naval party ashore to gather firewood, water, and/or food, then ambushed
12. Combined Naval landing and overland U.S. troops to raid a suspected seminole position.

I have some pics of past Seminole Indian War games at:
groups.yahoo.com/group/B_A_B

-David G.

You couold of course go 40mm with the HLBS range including US Army……nice for skirmishing

hlbs.co.uk/type.php?id=2

Are there any online piccies of the leather cap the US army wore at the time….I was thinking about using some of my excess ACW placcies- the conquest Seminoles are very tasty!

The USA forces also used Lower Creek Muscogees from Alalbama and Georgia to act as scouts and translators.

Thanks all for the replies – very comprehensive and very helpful. Top TMP work. Sounds like the Old Glory will be a good option, plus a few Texians and the like thrown into the mix.

Mandy Potemkin – thanks for your offer. Can you please email me at paul at kabulcaravan dot com.

dgleenjr – brilliant info and suggestions. I've signed up to the Yahoo group.

For some more reference materials check out the Florida Historical Quarterly. They have some really good articles available full-text online for free!!

palmm.fcla.edu/fhq

Here are a few:
Seminole War (2nd)
A Muddy Water Warrior's Manual: Toward a Riverine Warfare Tactical Doctrine in the Second Seminole War 78 (4)

The First Seminole War, November 21, 1817-May 24, 1818 by JOHN K. MAHON 77 (1)

WILLIAM TECUMSEH SHERMAN'S INTRODUCTION TO WAR, 1840-1842: LESSON FOR ACTION by Jane F. Lancaster 72 (1)

A FORGOTTEN SACRIFICE: RICHARD GENTRY, MISSOURI VOLUNTEERS, AND THE BATTLE OF OKEECHOBEE by Phillip Thomas Tucker 70 (2)

MISSOURI VOLUNTEERS AT THE BATTLE OF OKEECHOBEE: CHRISTMAS DAY 1837 by John K. Mahon 70 (2)

WEST FLORIDA'S CREEK INDIAN CRISIS OF 1837 by Brian R. Rucker 69 (3)

A WEST POINT GRADUATE IN THE SECOND SEMINOLE WAR: WILLIAM WARREN CHAPMAN AND THE VIEW FROM FORT FOSTER edited by Edward C. Coker and Daniel L. Schafer 68 (4)

STEAMBOAT ACTIVITY IN FLORIDA DURING THE SECOND SEMINOLE INDIAN WAR by Edward A. Mueller 64 (4)

John K. Mahon is considered THE authority on the Seminole Wars.

THE MOSQUITO FLEET'S GUIDES AND THE SECOND SEMINOLE WAR by George E. Buker 57 (3)

FORT FOSTER: A SECOND SEMINOLE WAR FORT by Michael G. Schene 54 (3)

CHEROKEES AND THE SECOND SEMINOLE WAR by Gary E. Moulton 53 (3)

CALOOSAHATCHEE MASSACRE: ITS SIGNIFICANCE IN THE SECOND SEMINOLE WAR by George R. Adams 48 (4)

LIEUTENANT LEVIN M. POWELL, U.S.N., PIONEER OF RIVERINE WARFARE by George E. Buker 47 (3)

ENCOUNTER BY THE RIVER by Frank Laumer 46 (4)

THE FLORIDA MILITIA'S ROLE IN THE BATTLE OF WITHLACOOHEE by George C. Bittle 44 (4)

CAPTAIN NATHANIEL WYCHE HUNTER AND THE FLORIDA INDIAN CAMPAIGNS, 1837-1841 by REYNOLD M. WIK 39 (1)

THE JOURNAL OF A. B. MEEK AND THE SECOND SEMINOLE WAR, 1836 edited by JOHN K. MAHON 38 (4)

THE JOURNALS OF LIEUTENANT JOHN PICKELL, 1836-1837 Edited by FRANK L. WHITE, JR. 38 (2)

LETTERS FROM THE SECOND SEMINOLE WAR edited by John K. Mahon 36 (4)

Cuban Bloodhounds and the Seminoles by James W. Covington 33 (2)
The U.S. Army attempted to use bloodhounds to sniff out Seminoles with little results. Might add an interesting element to gaming.

Thanks,
Andrew

Does anyone know if the Black Seminole Scouts in the 1870s still wore traditional Seminole clothing? The only known pictures of them in the 19th century is after 1885 where they are wearing U.S. uniform.

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