"Spanish Regts & Btn Question " Topic

Each Regt was

2 Field Btns

1st btn – 4 companies 2 x Grenadier 2 x Musketeers
2nd Btn – 4 Companies 4 x Musketeers

But when they went to the field did they do as other nations

3 x Muskeeter Companies 1 x Grenadier ?

Any one know the Average Strength of there Btns ?

Biggest Battle the Spainish Fought again Spain ?

Thanks in Advance

Little is discussed about Spanish operations as an independent force without British troop support.

Reorganization for battles would vary over the years and the circumstances. I would suspect but I am not near my books that the Spanish would have consolidated Grenadiers into a converged battalion rather than spreading out their 'eliteness'.

This would create a Grenadier Battalion (converged) for a Brigade being drawn from attached regiments.

Oh gosh, this is a complicated subject!

The key difficulty is that the Spanish army which was organised as stated in the first post very soon gave way to a collection of different armies. Generally, there was no central organisation of the Spanish armies and they were organised as the local junta saw fit. For example,some armies raised specific grenadier battalions, others did not. As to average strength, that is pretty meaningless as they varied very widely. Some regiments had 1 battalion, some had more.

If you want a big battle, the Spanish deployed just over 51,000 men at Ocana in November 1809. They lost to a French force of about 33,000.

Colin

As Colin says there was a wild variation, both in strength and in organization. In the Army of Asturias organized in June 1808, each batallion of volunteers was supposed to be 1,200 men strong. The real numbers were much lower, usually for more than 1/2 half of the authorized strength even before they were on campaign.

There were several battles where the Spanish army fought alone. Though the numbers can change a lot, in 1809 an average Spanish army fielded around 20-25,000 men. At Medellín (March, 28 1809) Cuesta had 23,000 men versus 21,000 French under Victor. At Almonacid (August 10, 1809) Venegas also deployed around 24,000 men (20,000 inf; 3,000 horse; 1,000 artillerists with 40 guns). At Tamames (October 18, 1809), Del Parque defeated Marchand's 15,000 men with his own 22,000.

A.

I found 'The Spanish Ulcer – A History of the Peninsular War' by David Gates in a second-hand bookshop yesterday and it includes a large number of orders of battle for the big engagements. If you can let me know a specific battle you are interested in I will look up the information for you. He gives overall figures for brigades rather than individual battalions but it should give a rough idea of the average size of battalions involved.

If you have Digby Smith's Data Book that may help augment the material in Gates' work.

Thanks guys ………. I know I have the Digby Data Book … and I might have the Spanish Ulcer book …. too many books grrrrrrrr

There's also an order of battle for Salamanca on the General de Brigade website which includes figures for a Spanish division: generaldebrigade.blogspot.com

Dusted off my napoleonic library and brought some books from the store's research section back home.

The old Wargamer's Digest fro mthe 1960s-70s often had battles articles converted to nice simple OBs and maps which could be placed on the board. They had several articles on Peninsular and other Napoleonic battles in various isses (including my 1977 article on Determining Napoleonic Scenarios).

I also found several phamlets on wars in Spain.

The coffee table book 'Napoleon's War in Spain' by Trani and Carmigniani has some good battle maps and uniforms but not much on unit organization. Great pictures of the war in Spain as well.

The Johnson book 'Napoleonic Armies' has the best information on the various armies including small ones.

Pre 1808 organization had a Regiment of three Bns with the first Bn having4 companies (164 men each) of 2 grenadier + 2 Musketeer. the second and third Bn had no Grenadier and 4 Musketeer companies. BNo organic Light infantry companies.
Light Infnatry regiments were of ONE Bn of six companies at 130 men with one company receiving pay as Grenadiers.
The 10 Foreign Rgts had 3 Bns but were on the Larger Light infantry models with 6 companies per Bn (5 Musketeer + 1 Gren).

In Nov 1808 the Spanish fielded NINE armies with a range of 2 to 7 Divisions per Army. Divisions varied in Stength due to regiment size and other common campaign isses. A Division had a core of 1 to 3 Regular Infnatry Regiment with 1 or 2 supporting cavalry Regiments. The core force was supplemtented by militia units raised in the area. The Average Division consisted of around 200 to 400 Cavalry and a direct support artillery battery with the total men numbering 5,000.

Rule of thumb after 1809 about 500 to 600 men in a battalion and like the British 4 to 5 battalions made up a brigade very few had two battlaions to make up a regiment. This is rule of thumb and would depend on specific order of battle.

The high water mark for the Spanish without the British was Nov 1808. All my data is prior to 1809.