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"Fictional 1930s war in Central America or anywhere else" Topic


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1,519 hits since 15 Nov 2009
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donnieitaly Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 6:43 a.m. PST

And no I don't want to do "A very British Civil War".

Back in 1964 I attended the first UK convention at Caxton hall in London and at it bought Don Featherstone's magazine. it had a great wargame report in it about two fictional countries kicking the living **** out of each other.

I read and re-read it for months.

Now suddenly at the age of 61 I want to do a, maybe Bolivian street/countryside fighting game with Armoured cars and troops in inter war German uniforms fighting, well, either Paraguayans or Bolivian civilians, but for fun.

I don't want pages of rules and armour penetration factors. I want machine guns and barricades and Spanish Civil War type weaponry.

Any suggestions as to scale or country, or anything else for that matter.

It has to be fun.

If you've read this far – thanks :-)

rddfxx Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 7:19 a.m. PST

Sounds like fun, do it!

Skeptic15 Nov 2009 7:22 a.m. PST

Why fictional, when you could game the Gran Chaco War?

link

Tsunami Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 7:24 a.m. PST

I'd go with 15mm if you'd like to focus on the vehicles and terrain, or 28mm if you want to focus more on the "characters". There are simply tons of 15mm figures that would prove useful, including Minifigs, QRF, Flames of War, and many others.

In 28mm, you could use Old Glory "Pershing-in-Mexico" range figures, Bob Murch's Pulp Figures, or Copplestone Back-of-Beyond. For more "uniform" figures, you could try Brigade Games WW1 or Artizan WW2 items. Then you also have the various SCW ranges to pick from.


A few years ago, I did a generic "Latin Warlord" army of the 1920's, with everyone wearing a mix of khaki and olive colored uniforms. Armored Cars and transport were Sloppy Jaloppy vehicles. Figures were a mix of Pulp Chinese Warlord troops, Old Glory Federales, and a few American "Advisors".

AfricanAl15 Nov 2009 7:35 a.m. PST

Italian invasion of Abyssinia -- cavalry charge on tanks, poison gas from the air, what more could you want. And it's real.

Personal logo Jamesonsafari Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 8:15 a.m. PST

Sounds like a hoot and a half. Do it!

Tsunami's advice is good and sound. If you want company level with a few field guns and armoured cars, maybe a train with sandbags around flat cars, then do 15mm. Smaller level and 28mm with all the Pulp and Back of Beyond figures will be a delight to paint up.

You've got a whole range of terrain from mountains to deserts and jungles, swamps and farmland and cities.

And I'm pretty sure there were aenough wars in latin Armerica in the 20s and 30s you could find something. I think Chile and Peru gfought a war over their desert frontier around then.

Or just make a couple up: The Republic of Chupacabre vs. Tropico or something.

Sugarbeets… now I want to morph my Pulp stuff into Banana Wars. I've got a platoons worth of Bob Murch's Marines looking for someone other than gangsters and the minions of Dr. Evil to shoot at.

Personal logo Jamesonsafari Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 8:17 a.m. PST

For rules try "Mud & Blood" by the Too Fat Lardies. It's WW1 reinforced platoon level up to maybe company level. Their rules are fun, fast, lots of friction to make your plans fall apart but not overly bogged down in technical details.

Personal logo PaulCollins Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 8:35 a.m. PST

I am using 'A Sword To Adventure' for my between the wars Chinese warlord battles. If you have a familiarity with, or a desire to play, The Sword and the Flame, these are a very good supplement. I use 'With Ol' Gimlet Eye' by Larry Brom for my Central American battles. They are designed as a stand-alone set of rules for the U.S. Marines in Nicaragua 1912-1933, but are applicable for other forces also.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 9:24 a.m. PST

Okay…well for scale I would say 15mm as the choices for what you want are legion…WWI, Early WWI, Spanish Civil War, etc…

Or if you want machine guns and barricades and Spanish Civil War Weaponry, then use the 15mm SCW stuff and populate your own country…

With this info you can go ahead and then develop your own country, and "why they are fighting"…

Example:
The Central American Expansionist Conflict between The Republicas De Cucharachas and the Quesadilla Rebels backed by the neighboring Govt. of Chinchilla 1935-1939…

Here you have two main countrie's a force of rebels, and all sorts of reasons WHY they are fighting…borders, land, natural resources, (I've heard that lower Chinchilla makes some of the best Central American Goat Cheese that you can get on the market)…Perhaps, something else…perhaps the Quesadilla Rebels are supported by a Central American Fascist Movement and then you could get the Germans involved…

It's pretty open, but for size, scale, choice, and what you want to do I would say 15mm

jpattern2 Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 9:26 a.m. PST

Jamesonsafari wrote:

. . . now I want to morph my Pulp stuff into Banana Wars.
And it works in the other direction, too. Once you have your Banana Wars warbands, you can use them as the minions of the Evil Mastermind, and send in some Pulp Heroes to take him down.

Personal logo Martin Rapier Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 9:28 a.m. PST

Just go for the SCW but in a different countries. 15mm is a good choice for this era, and I just used AK47 with a few minor mods (mainly around towed guns, and I did culturally specfic ranodm events). Simple, fast and fun.

donnieitaly Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 9:34 a.m. PST

In no particular order – thanks.

First off I have n unreasoning dislike of "The Sword…" series, but I was a good thought so thanks.

Chaco! Indeed I have read most stuff in print on that war, but where to get the figures and it was mainly in desert.

Abyssinia. That is right up my street but as a colonial game and not for this project. As you say though, it has it all.

Tsunami I think yoiu concentrated my thoughts as to scale. I do a lot of 21st C. skirmish in 20mm and don't really want to do that or go higher – so it'll be 15mm.

Then I can get mortars, HMGs, some very early tanks (a la Chaco) and some BI-PLANES!!! Look up the Chaco again for those – beautiful. But troops? I have in mind lorry loads of 1923/30 German uniforms in Frei Korp groups fighting civilians behind barricades and maybe fighting off an outside enemy at the same time.

For which I thank Jamesonsafari for the most excellent "Republic of Chupacabre" with, hey, I just though, Royalist forces from neighbouring (insert cool name here) backed by "volunteers" from said country who's interest is not really in putting Count Brainless the 2nd on the throne, but in securing the valuable sugar beet production of the Republic.

Ideas are forming. I like this

Thanks everyone and any more idea feel free to suggest I'm not proud.

What a wonderful and HARMLESS hobby :=)

Personal logo Dropship Horizon Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 9:34 a.m. PST

Hi Donnie

Can I suggest a fictional Central American country close to Panama called Gran Gauncho or similar.

You could use a variant of the Peter Pig AK47 rules – 30-30 Carabina (id still available) or Mexicanski36 link

I'd do 15mm – Eureka Early US Marines as interventionists – Freikorps and similar Mexicans in sombreros/ Late Queen Milicia/Miliciano as civilians – Late Queen Asaltos as Policia Militar, Bolivian army etc – Eureka WW1 Bulgarians make good S.American regulars too.

Cheers
Mark

donnieitaly Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 9:39 a.m. PST

And thanks to "Murphy" who posted in between me reading and replying, although I have to take him up on one point which has ANGERED ME!!!

"I've heard that lower Chinchilla makes some of the best Central American Goat Cheese that you can get on the market"

This IS SO NOT TRUE!!! I regret now that should we meet I will have to cut you dead sirrah.

So there :-)

PS Whilst re-post I'll Google them but I don't know SCW figures.

Personal logo Dropship Horizon Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 9:51 a.m. PST

The Late Queen minis in particular are superb and full of character: thelatequeen.com/order.html

Cheers
Mark

donnieitaly Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 10:30 a.m. PST

Oh…

S panish C ivil W ar

Right

{{{{{Blush}}}}

boggler15 Nov 2009 10:46 a.m. PST

Nice idea.

I'd definately second AK47 for 15mm. Perfect for lots of interesting and fairly useless units.

For 28mm you could do worse than Contemptible Little Armies, which works very well for the Back of Beyond, so would probably translate over to South America with little difficulty.

panzerCDR15 Nov 2009 10:49 a.m. PST

Hmmm. . . how about Chile (equipped by the Brits) against the Argentinians (US and German kit) over some percieved slight in the Beagle Channel? This might be more of a naval fight as the geography may not permit huge battles a la SCW. Still, you could easily convert a Condor Legion type force to assist the Argentinians while the Chileans get help from the Brits (and maybe even the Japanese). Claudes and Gladiators vs. ME-109s over the Andes! On to Santiago! Maybe even a raid on the Falklands to eliminate the British base there! Avenge Admiral Spee with the Graf Spee! It could be amusing.

Deserter15 Nov 2009 11:27 a.m. PST

There is also the Peru-Ecuador war of 1941

link

donnieitaly Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 12:09 p.m. PST

Okay – Countries Fictional

Scale 15mm

Figures Many

Rules ?

I've downloaded Mud and Blood and am strangely confused by them.

Crossfire?

Disposable Heroes?

JamesonFirefox Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 12:43 p.m. PST

The Lardy rules are written by Brits so they have a more relaxed, narrative style to them. They also take the approach of changing the rules to fit the historical situation rather than bending history to fit the rules.

The game turn is card driven for unit/leader activation rather than a fixed turn sequence.

The too Fat Lardies Yahoo Group is very friendly and helpful.

Personal logo Martin Rapier Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2009 1:42 p.m. PST

"Rules ?"

Honestly, I'd go with AK47, it is incredibly easy to use it for Banana Republic type games and the canned army lists include the various types of political organisations you may find in a fictional 1930s South America – from Russian/German stooges to religious fanatics.

donnieitaly Inactive Member15 Nov 2009 2:10 p.m. PST

Stoopid thing, I had AK47 and sold them!

But it makes sense.

I have to have a 15mm armoured car :-)

Mark Plant15 Nov 2009 4:25 p.m. PST

Soviet Civil War around 1935 – Trotskyists versus Stalinists gives some nice options since large numbers of the troops are already available either as Russian Civil War or early WWII ranges. Any scale is feasible.

Some cool tanks but also cavalry. Easy terrain.

Lots of people will already have bits and pieces suitable for this in either RCW or WWII, so you might have a head start.

peterx15 Nov 2009 9:29 p.m. PST

Hi donnieitaly, sounds fun.

How about Iron Ivan SCW rules for the larger units and mixed in their new 1920s-1930s based action/pulp adventure rules, "Where Heroes Dare!". If you already play Disposable Heroes it will be super easy. If not, it would still be quite easy to learn, I'd say. The "Where Heroes Dare!" rules would be useful for Jamie El Bondo-style adventures in Republica de Cucarachas capital, Porto Ratas, like capturing the Dictator Caesar Mucho-Gusto.

Just my two cents, if I were currently playing 20mm and thinking of collecting a new era (1930s), I would stay with that 20mm scale for multi-use buildings, scenery and cross-over troops to other SCW, WWII, and other pulp games. If not, go with 15mm, as you were saying.

Personal logo Martin Rapier Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2009 8:36 a.m. PST

"I have to have a 15mm armoured car :-)"

I have several, including a number of goofy home-made SCW models.

donnieitaly Inactive Member16 Nov 2009 10:26 a.m. PST

Peterx I can't see the SCW rules on II's site. Do they have a name I haven't spotted?

Martin, where'd you buy them. I NEED some (Oh okay, WANT a couple.) :-)

donnieitaly Inactive Member16 Nov 2009 3:06 p.m. PST

Just a plug for the afore mentioned

thelatequeen.com/images.html

15mm figures. They look lovely and although they are priced in something called the "Euro" (I no idea what that is but it's equal enough to a proper British sterling <g>) they sell for about £3.00 GBP for eight figures.

peterx16 Nov 2009 5:14 p.m. PST

Hey, donnieitaly,
The Iron Ivan Games has it in their quartermaster section with the title "Primara Battala" for $20.00 USD ( U.S.). Good luck with the games donnie. 8^D

You also need the basic rules "Disposable Heroes" to play the SCW variant, if you don't have it already. Or borrow a friend's copy.

donnieitaly Inactive Member17 Nov 2009 1:56 p.m. PST

Peterx thanks, but I'm going to try AK47. (Or should it be AK1?)

I bought Mud and Blood but I don't think I like them. So they're for sale now :-)

The idea of rules for Abyssinia really appeals so maybe I'll meld them with AK1. (Gas and Cavalry – as you say "What's not to like!"

Miniatures I have some of the thelatequeen.com/order.html
on the way as samples but I still need armoured cars and early tanks.

Strangely the Flames of War castings look interesting, could anyone tell me of their quality?

Off subject a little my company used to make bits Spurs and stirrups for horses and of course, the military. There is a story that in the early 1930s we took a very big order from the Bolivian government which was collected in army lorries from us when it was ready (We're were in Walsall England) I've often wondered if that story is true. I've no reason to believe it not to be.

boggler18 Nov 2009 3:13 a.m. PST

QRF do some nice interwar armoured cars and WW1 stuff that would be perfect for your project. Minifigs also have some WW1 vehicles that might be useful.

link

donnieitaly Inactive Member25 Nov 2009 9:28 a.m. PST

Well I admit to being surprised. I've bought a bunch of Romanian Flames of War troops and they're quite good. In fact very good.

So I'm thinking Romanians for Paraguayan intervention forces, Germans for the Republic of Chupacabre troops loyal to the dictatorship and maybe ||Italians or French doe the Republic of Chupacabre exiles loyal to Brainless the 2nd,

OldGlory15 do some nice armoured cars and I buy a lot of stuff from them for my website.

I've also been much impressed by the second edition AK47 rules although of course they'll need downscaling as to weaponry.

I even have a provisional country map courtesy of a Caribbean island photographed by Google Earth, (Just fill in the sea bits and change the scales around.

I progress :-)

Hmm, rules for air delivered poison gas???

donnieitaly Inactive Member28 Nov 2009 8:42 a.m. PST

HEY!!! I said "Rules for air delivered poison gas " please! Do I have to do my hobby all by myself :-)

SamPearce Inactive Member07 Dec 2009 2:53 p.m. PST

The neighboring country of Guemanga, possessor of the nearest deep-sea port to the two belligerents, has been the choke-point for the importation of war materials and the arrival of foreign advisors.

Rival trans-shipping firms in the port city of Carto Verde, each suporting a different side in the brewing war, have established depots where vehicles are uncrated and assembled, and set up tent-camps for the ranks of foreign fighters funded by unknown means. They say it's impossible to find an unoccupied hotel room anywhere in Carto Verde – the ones not currently housing the exiled Pretender to the Throne and his hangers-on are filled with arms dealers, foreign gentlemen of military bearing traveling under painfully false names, and shady representatives of labor unions, oil companies, foreign governments, random political parties and war correspondents from a half-dozen nations.

The place is a powder keg – all it would take is a careless match thrown in the wrong direction and this non-aligned nation could explode into an adjacent-but-unrelated war of its own!

In the event of any action, each side, composed of numerous factions themselves, would no doubt rush for their depots and emerge better-armed than even the Guemangan Army. And control of the port of Carto Verde could be the first step to an early victory in the uplands!

donnieitaly Inactive Member09 Dec 2009 10:51 a.m. PST

Jeez, how did you know all this????

The King is under threat it is true but surely the Army will stand behind him? True General Camariere has been away recently but it was to spend more time with his wife's family in…GOOD LORD Carta Verde!

The implications!

The Royal Guard however they will stay loyal and have even opened discreet discussion with the Paraguayans (A mighty military neighbour with a history of brilliant strategic accomplishments.) who can surely be called upon to help if the unthinkable occurs.

And why has the General's son formed a flying club with three bi-planes of dubious parentage?

abdul666lw10 Mar 2010 6:18 a.m. PST

The Gran Chaco war appears in Tintin's 'Broken Ear' as the Gran Chapo (phonetically: 'large hat', in French) between Nuevo Rico and San Theodoros link

I suspect that AK47 would work fine for these, Spirou's Palombia -and even Uroguy (in the 1930 or nowadays).
As it would work fine for Blechistan, Pukistan and any of these countries with a name ending in 'stan' in post-USSR Caucasus…

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP17 Apr 2010 6:56 a.m. PST

Dipping English history into some hot sauce, the long-rumbling competition between the heavily-US-invested pepper-growing factions in the developing nation of Guanoforte has broken out into THe War of the Peppers--corporate proxy wars over who controls the water rights to the Jalapeno or Habanero production areas. Surplus Renaults may chaperone worker caravans along the dusty/muddy rough roads. Workers and mercenary guards holed up in a Jalapenista processing factory may resort to improvised chemical warfare to hold off assaulting Habanerista forces.
Rumors of prisoners being abused--force-fed (and worse!) extremely spicy pepper concentrate --lead to deep-penetration raids on enemy General Sal Saverde's HQ to liberate the captives.

abdul666lw18 Apr 2010 4:27 a.m. PST

In the Costa Caribe, war is looming between Anagua, Casanare and San Lorenzo: wwwcostacaribe.blogspot.com

'Collective' isnpirational blog / League of Interwars Imagi-Nations: link

Personal logo Buckeye AKA Darryl Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2012 4:44 p.m. PST

You don't need no stinkin' fiction…

Chaco War, 15mm, using Khurasan Miniatures, A World Aflame for rules, and the new Osprey as a painting guide.

Figures:
link

Rules:
link

Men at Arms:
link

However, I do like Dropship Horizon's suggestion of using the Eureka 15mm early war Marines and naval figures, which can be found here:

link

Or here if in the States:
link

Although, nearly all the above suggestions sound pretty wonderful! One could also use the old Junta boardgame as a scenario driver.

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