"Growing the Hobby: best by individuals or conv. marketing?" Topic

There is a difference between "growing the hobby" and "growing convention attendance."

You can advertise a convention to more wargamers and grow attendance.

But is trying to create new wargamers via the way conventions are structured at all cost effective?

Hypothesis: creating new gamers is something that is most effectively done by individuals who are already gamers. If you get someone genuinely interested, he will follow you to a convention even at a fleabag location.

Thus you grow the hobby and convention attendance for some baseline minimal amount per capita.

If the convention is too fleabag to attract the new wargamer on a regular basis, then you have still grown the hobby (he does play at the local club or your basement). And the convention costs have not increased at all for the attendees (per capita again).

He may be less profitable per year for the vendors who depend on convention sales, but they are a faction whose self interest must not be allowed to control convention policy (at least not for conventions produced by non-profit organizations such as HMGS).

Instead of opting for more expensive convention locations to induce people to try the hobby, offering a substantial reimbursement of costs to first time attendees who are invited by members may be more effective. Such first timers are likely to spend more cash at the vendors than they would otherwise. They will go home with many more miniatures in hand; and their possession of the objects required to play will strengthen their nacent connection to the hobby.

What would be the upfront cost of 100 free room nights, mostly sharing a room with their sponsor? How much money do 100 relatively new gamers spend on the vendors at their first convention?

Can clubs who recruit in this way receive recognition for the sales they create, maybe even get merchandise certificates?

[ Yes, the multi-level marketing scheme _will_ be called "Warway" ]

Conclusion: Convention must serve the known requirements of current gamers. Structuring conventions as a "marketing tool" is not a cost effective way of increasing the number of wargamers.

Creating new wargamers requires a little mood music and some wine. Or a Star Trek marathon and some Mountain Dew for two . . . it all depends on the people involved.

Just convert Oprah and your work is done for you.

TSR's Chainmail – An Oprah Rulebook of the Month.

Convert Bill Gates or Warren Buffet and they could buy the whole hobby, lock , stock, and barrel and order thousands of their minions to attend conventions and play wargames.

Instead of paying for a room, provide $100 USD in vendor certificates.

Has anyone ever got into the hobby by going to a convention ?

If you weren't already playing with toy soldiers, what would induce you to go to a toy soldier convention ?

And how would you find out about one without buying toy soldier magazines or visiting toy soldier web sites ?

And if you're buying the magazines / browsing the web looking for figures then, duh, you are already in the hobby.

Yeah I agree with 20thmaine. Highly doubt too many people have been introduced to "the hobby" by going to a convention first. Obviously there are exceptions but they would be dwarfed by the number of people who have been introduced by other gamers.

I think it would be better to do a local demo game at a mall or library. Have literature about local gaming shops/clubs and any upcoming convention. It is the old drug dealer scheme. Start them out on pot then hit them with the really hard stuff and get 'em strung out for life.

Why would I want to "grow the hobby"? It rises and falls on its own merits.
Stamp collecting is in the dumper now. Is anyone bewailing the fact? It is failing because no one wants to collect anymore. It is as relevant as buggy whip collecting, and frankly, the USPS has not produced an attractive design in 20 years.

One thing I find interesting is the focus on minis only cons. I was introduced to minis games at a roleplaying con when I was in highschool. If you want to grow the minis gaming hobby, go where you know you will find gamers. Then you could host minis games at a mixed cons where minis games are under represented.

Why would I want to "grow the hobby"?

My instinct when this comes up every two months or less is to agree – what difference does it make really ?

But then when someone's been told they can't do medivals in 54mm plastics 'cos it ain't proper I always chip in along the lines of "play it your way and don't give a damn if people say you're using the wrong rules. Your hobby, do it your way if you want"

So, rationally I have to accept that some people's hobby enjoyment comes from there being more people in the hobby than when they started.

I don't understand it though.

and frankly, the USPS has not produced an attractive design in 20 years.

And as everyone knows, there is absolutely no other postal service in the world…
--
Tim

You can measure convention attendance, sales, and all kinds of things. The number of active gamers at any given phase of the moon can only be detected by witchcraft.

The advantages of having a lively set of convention programs should be obvious.

I know that forty some years ago when my competitive wargaming was at its height I didn't necessarily need to go to Philadelphia for the annual MFCA show (now at Valley Forge) or their annual Wargame Convention. But those were the high points of our social season.

While there my regular opponent(s) and I never played each other. We did that all year around. We gamed with peope we only saw at the conventions. And we were always fascinated with the armies other people brought to game. There were, by today's standards, relatively few dealers. But we made a lot of new friends.

For the most part we would make first contact by attending the toy soldier collectors clubs, a subset of which played with their toys.

There was a lot of speculation about how to meet new gamers. I recall doing an article or editorial on the subject-which may be lost to posterity with the collapse of MAGWEB. Shops and local clubs were, I think, recommended places to look. But the occassional (and fairly small) conventions broadened our horizons.

Although somewhat different, the attraction of conventions in those days carries over. You went to game, shop, and hang out with old and new wargame buddies.

At Wally's Basement there was a strong sense that the large gaming conventions had been dominated by board games (and later FRP) and did not provide a stimulating environment for HM gamers.

I think we've changed that for the better.

Sadly, I don't have the proper laboratory facilities to test your hypothesis, so we'll have to stick to anecdotes, and just wear white lab coats.

I will say that as a non-miniatures-related university freshman, I wandered into my School Club Convention by happenstance (the dealer's room), and was astounded by all the nifty stuff. Replica Swords, tables full of figures, all matter of terraining kit… All brand new things that I had no idea existed before. I hadn't ever picked up a rulebook before. I may have seen HeroQuest once…

All that neat stuff lead me to my FLGS (Crazy Egor's back in '94) and I picked up a hand full of minis, some paints… I didn't even know what the heck a "Warhammer Fantasy Battle" was.

Next thing you know I was meeting Battletech Strategists, SCAdians, Rogue Trader players, Shadowrunners…. The list goes on and on.

We played in dorm lounges and auditoriums and after hours lab suites… We didn't put it together that there was already a gaming club on campus (freshmen… reinventing the wheel while standing on a pile of them). By the time the convention came around again, we got wind of it and were amazed again. Some of us ended up with major social investments in the gaming club. Some just stuck to people they met incidentally. I suppose at a technical school that's more plausible than at some other types of colleges…

That being said, I've also gone to model train shows, geology clubs, fencing salles, Anime clubs… But for some reason rolling dice and painting figures is what I come back to over and over again.

It was more than the jump start of seeing nifty gear all on display, or having a good first experience with it. It was about meeting people that shared that interest, hanging out with them for years, and then thinking enough of it to pass it on to new people I met.

The convention was merely a way for me to see a variety of shiny things I had no context for. The people who gave it context were what made me a "gamer".

The younger members of my club (30 year olds) became aware of the hobby by attending small, local game days. They attended these events when 12-13 years old. The adult/adults that introduced them also were war gamers. So, after the game day stirred the emotions, there was home support to keep the interest going.
I think PygmaelionAgain says it best:

It was more than the jump start of seeing nifty gear all on display, or having a good first experience with it. It was about meeting people that shared that interest, hanging out with them for years, and then thinking enough of it to pass it on to new people I met.

The convention was merely a way for me to see a variety of shiny things I had no context for. The people who gave it context were what made me a "gamer".

John the OFM->

Why would I want to "grow the hobby"? It rises and falls on its own merits.

Yes and No.

As an 'old school' gamer,
there is a bit of our sub-cultures Personal History
ya'll are mostly overlooking:
The influence of Returning Veterans.

I'm personally too young to have
NEEDED gaming,
and my combat experience was from
forty miles off-shore.

But: I tell you what:
All my Gaming Mentors were
Vietnam or Korean War era Vets.
And they Gamed Hard-Core.

That generation didn't "like" gaming,
and they didn't consider it a 'hobby'
(although you'd be hard-pressed
to get anyone to admit such)…

Nope: those guys,
mostly young men prematurely aged
by the Realities of Warfare:
They needed to game.

It was self-help.
It was therapy.
It saved their lives. mostly…
PTSD is a bitch mistress, and back then it didn't even have a name.

'Combat Fatigue' was something
you just didn't admit to then, gentlemen.
It wasn't 'manly' to do so. More correctly:
it wasn't something you discussed with "outsiders".

Nobody but your peers
would understand, anyway.
or particulairly care.
Gaming was your Therapy, and fellow Gamers were your counselors

Before touchy-feely modern psychiatric and/or social therapy
was readily accepted by the culture as the norm,
and anxiety relieving prescription medications
were easily available: you basically had two choices;

Self Medication, any way you could
(alcohol, soft drugs, hard drugs):
or peer support.
VFW halls aren't museums.

Okay: there was a third option:
pretend it didn't exist
until you blew.
Having seen it happen a coupla times I'll tell you: not pretty.

But:
I'm being a little overly dramatic
and a trifle morbid here;
sorry about that.
My point is this:

You want to grow the hobby?
Recognize that there exists a large group of people
who will adopt the lifestyle with a Passion:
Returning Veterans.

Try running a game at a VFW hall.
Put up flyers at the local VA Hospital.
Contact your local Recruiters and talk to them.
Find as many communication methods as you can.

Consider it your Civic Duty.

my two cents.

Conclusion: Convention must serve the known requirements of current gamers. Structuring conventions as a "marketing tool" is not a cost effective way of increasing the number of wargamers.

Conventions must serve the requirements of ALL of the stakeholders in the convention. These stakeholders are:
-the wargamers who attend and pay admission and shop
-the vendors who pay booth fees
-the GMs who run events to entertain the attendees
-the convention staff who for whatever motivation think running the convention would be Fun and a Good Thing
-and new comers who wander in off the street or saw a sign in a local shop or were invited by a friend.

Structure your convention to blance the needs of all 5 groups and you'll have a good convention and grow the hobby.

But conventions aren't the best or easiest way to attract new hobbyists. Not hiding your hobby under a rock is one. Run events at schools or libraries. Be willing to talk about it when someone sees you reading Wargames Illustrated at lunch. If you have a young relative who likes toy soldiers and model tanks maybe slip a few of your old wargaming mags his way.

But all those efforst will come to naught if the new person is met with disdain and aloofness when he ventures to the convention.

Like any sales you only get a 10% success rate on al the contacts you make.

It seems that ex military form a fair proportion of gamers (at least historical ones) in the US but it is quite rare to meet one here in the UK. Certainly the logic of ex-military becoming wargamers is sound but it doesn't seem to work quite that way over this side of the pond.

Most of the older gamers I meet started out with a passion for history mixed with modellers and those with 'toy soldier' memories from childhood. I'd say that, in my experience, the passion for history was the most common driving force but modelling (very much a boy's hobby well into the 70's over here) came a close second.

Many younger ones tended to have come into the hobby either through RPG and Fantasy or having seen stuff in local shops or at a local show. I can say from experience that many people do get to see wargaming for the first time at a local show – often by bringing their kids along or simply accompanying a pal who is already interested to some extent.

Like John, I don't see myself as having any sort of 'duty' to expand the hobby – I do public stuff at shows simply because I enjoy doing it.

Sadly the main players in the industry fail to have an effective outreach program. It requires a lot of effort that few want to pay for. Money for the development and distribution of the materials is the key. Sadly most companies in our industry lack the excess funds to allocate to such a project.

I cannot say too much about particulars on some aspects because I am working with a company now on such an effort.

There is the trade group for historical companies.

Trade groups do not know how to present effective material to help grow the hobby among educational groups.

There is the trade group for historical companies.

Who is that?

A convention will draw in the curious, and keep them for a short while if they have an interest. A person showing them the ropes/introducing them to the many aspects of the hobby will keep that person coming back for more.

The Siege show in Augusta was aslo the site for a regional High School chess competition. A lot of teachers and students attended the shows. Very few of them to my knowledge got into gaming or even bought books for the classroom. At least it was an effort by the local gamers to expand. So I applaud their efforts.

On numerous occasions I've attempted to introduce individuals to the game by inviting them to see the figures, observe a game and ultimately take a role in the game. I once had a friend drop by a game, the room was full of respectable grown men, including several financiers and attorneys, everyone was having immense fun – my friend took one look and proceeded to giggle like a little school girl – he was quickly shuffled back out of the room and given a stiff drink. He never returned.

It's a great hobby, that I wouldn't trade for anything, but it definitely isn't everyone's 'cup of tea'.

Bottom line, if someone has a predisposition to the hobby – avid watcher of the military channel, loved the movies 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Master and Commander', has read the Flashman and Sharpe novels, then there's a pretty good chance they might be interested – but even that's no guarantee.

For me "growing the hobby" is a bit more than just a discussion, it's something I have to work on everyday, or go bankrupt.

I've had two gaming stores for 22 years. You can't sell the same amount of games to the same people every month. (A few people excepted of course.) You need new customers playing and buying games. This means running demo games, giving them a place to play, giving painting lessons, running events, and most importantly – introducing them to established gamers.

It takes a lot of time, and takes your veteran gamers helping. Some people complain that they don't want to play younger players who don't appreciate the history, but how else do they learn? As the years go by, we are slowly building more and more gamers, some historical, some not. The store keeps going and with gamers supporting the store, and the store supporting gamers.

Conventions can play a big part in that a trip to historicon or something like it, is a great way to take a new gamer and cement them into the hobby. Show them just how much is out there, and get them involved in more than just what they've seen and played at their store or group.

If Historicon is moving to VF, I'm hoping to get a large chunk of my players up to it. Too good an opportunity to show them some more of the hobby, with it being only 20 minutes away.

There are at least half a dozen adults -- now in their 40's -- who became miniature gamers as part of my club at the high school where I taught. They were alreaqdy board gamers -- S&T, SPI, AH, etc -- but dozens played with my minis each year, and typically 3 a year would buy their own, of whom two would never get them painted and give them to me a year later. But there were always a few who stayed with it. A couple of them are now 25 to 30 years grognards in the hobby and members of TMP.

Do games where kids can participate. Be fun and encouraging. The hobby will grow. Pre-painted toys like HEROSCAPE help now, to overcome the steep aquisition curve.

Guys, I've never given a rats ass whether we grow the hobby. It took about year or so before I found my first convention in Origins 77 in New York City. Not long after I had my first wargame with Bill Rutherford in McLean. My work hours kept me out of Potomac Wargamers and gaming at Little Soldier. It took about 4 years to acquire and paint my first 200 figures. Fantasy was rampant and it was hard to find opponents or order wargame products. So although the participation of HMGS in Origins 82 meant nothing to me at the time, I attended my first minicon in 1986 and the rest is history. Yes, I joined to pay $5.00 USD admission instead of $10.00 USD admission. I could buy all the little soldiers I could afford which wasn't many and I could play wargames with real people including Bill Rutherford whom I greet at every con and vice versa. So as long as you guys show up to play, I will too as long as I am able. Bring along some new blood if you want, but not a requirement for me.